View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

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  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
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Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #901
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    oh, my dictionary is ADAPTED TO THE CONSTITUTION AND LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND OF THE SEVERAL STATES OF THE AMERICAN UNION......is yours?
    The dictionary I quoted is independent and objective, not "mine" or anyone's. I think you just betrayed your biased source, much like quoting NARTH regarding gay marriage.

    Your pride alone holds you here. You seem to have a need to get the last word in, but know that I know how to quote posts even after threads are closed, and so yours will not be the last. Save face and give up that battle now while you have some face to save. There are no natural rights, there never were. Yes this means you were lied to. Yes this mean the entire United States is a fraud. But just because the Titanic is sinking doesn't mean you can't be a survivor.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-26-15 at 08:09 PM.

  2. #902
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The dictionary I quoted is independent and objective, not "mine" or anyone's. I think you just betrayed your biased source, much like quoting NARTH regarding gay marriage.

    Your pride alone holds you here.
    no my research of rights and knowing what i am talking about keeps me here, you see jerry, i have covered this subject many times before this thread on other threads and other forums before, and i have read and understand the meanings..long before talking to you about it.
    Anti-Democracy advocate, Mixed government is the only good government

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    second point to be examined is, whether the [constitutional ]convention were authorized to frame and propose this mixed Constitution.


  3. #903
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    no my research of rights and knowing what i am talking about keeps me here, you see jerry, i have covered this subject many times before this thread on other threads and other forums before, and i have read and understand the meanings..long before talking to you about it.
    If that were true then you would know that Natural Rights do not exist because every right can be taken from you. Please do not lie to me again, I thought highly of you.

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If that were true then you would know that Natural Rights do not exist because every right can be taken from you. Please do not lie to me again, I thought highly of you.
    sorry jerry, you can suppress rights...which is done by people and by governments, but rights are still there, because those people and those governments, did not grant them.

    people are born free, it is government which made them unwilling subjects, to their will.

    if i were to take the position that natural rights did not exist, then i will have to denounce my believes in the founding principles of america and the laws of america which are based on them...in short i would be denouncing anything i have ever been taught and read from the men who created our very own nation, and i will not do that.
    Anti-Democracy advocate, Mixed government is the only good government

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    second point to be examined is, whether the [constitutional ]convention were authorized to frame and propose this mixed Constitution.


  5. #905
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Actually, there are tons of repeat offenders who specifically want to go back to prison because it's easier than being on the outside. Do you ever get sick of being so ignorant?
    Tons, eh? Yeah, I'll have to plead ignorance on that one. I mean, I can see a homeless person trying to get into a local drunk tank for a night to avoid the cold. That would be rational. Even the occasional oldtimer who's grown accustomed to prison life. I would even call that rational. But tons of people lining up to get into prison? Get real, man, or give me a source.
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If there were a natural right to life then no one could ever be murdered.

    In fact there wouldn't even be war since no one on either side could ever die.
    The fact that rights are violated in no way means they do not exist. This point has already been addressed, and you are now going in circles repeating it.

    The reality is that your definition of natural rights is totally bogus and out of line with what natural rights actually are. You have redefined the concept of natural rights in order to say they do not exist, a completely fallacious tactic.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If that were true then you would know that Natural Rights do not exist because every right can be taken from you. Please do not lie to me again, I thought highly of you.
    I have $10 in my wallet. A robber takes it away from me. Does that mean the $10 did not exist? Of course not. Yet that is your entire argument with regards to natural rights--"if you can take something away, therefore it does not exist." A totally nonsensical non sequitur.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  8. #908
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No, there is only a tendency for most people to please others because of how we are raised and/or our experiences.
    I don't think people are taught how to feel. I think emotions such as love, hate, sadness, and happiness are innate even if they develop with maturity. I mean, have you ever heard of a newborn smiling after he's had his fanny spanked, or are they just quick learners who get the message on the first smite that they're supposed to scream their lungs out? As for the abusers, I'm sure some of them rationalize their behavior as "reasonable," but most of them realize what they'e doing is wrong. Even a sociopath knows the difference. They just can't help themselves because they lack self-control.
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    I have $10 in my wallet. A robber takes it away from me. Does that mean the $10 did not exist? Of course not. Yet that is your entire argument with regards to natural rights--"if you can take something away, therefore it does not exist." A totally nonsensical non sequitur.
    That's not my argument at all.

    This is about what kind of right it is, not if you have any rights at all. You have a right to life, but it is not inalienable, which means it's not a Natural Right. The right to life is a Human Right because it is an authority or entitlement you have simply by virtue of being human.

    You have $10 in your wallet. The government takes that away from you as 'tax'. You have been alienated from your $10. If that $10 was your inalienable right then you would have been born with it, because no one could have given it to you as payment, nor could you spend that $10, because you cannot willingly give away inalienable rights.

    There are Human Rights and there are Civil Rights, but there are no Natural rights and we can prove this over and over.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-27-15 at 04:19 AM.

  10. #910
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    I don't think people are taught how to feel. I think emotions such as love, hate, sadness, and happiness are innate even if they develop with maturity. I mean, have you ever heard of a newborn smiling after he's had his fanny spanked, or are they just quick learners who get the message on the first smite that they're supposed to scream their lungs out? As for the abusers, I'm sure some of them rationalize their behavior as "reasonable," but most of them realize what they'e doing is wrong. Even a sociopath knows the difference. They just can't help themselves because they lack self-control.
    The emotions themselves are innate to us, how they are directed is not. That comes from experiences and in some ways teachings.

    It depends on how hard you smack the fanny, as well as the child's pain tolerance. I had a brother who laughed at getting spankings because his pain tolerance was so high.

    And no, morals are subjective. Right and wrong is subjective. This is why segregation was fought so hard by so many, because they didn't see it as "wrong", despite so many of us now seeing this as wrong. That is part of morality. The same is true for killing. Yes, some may see it as wrong for their own morality, but others likely see what they are doing as not wrong (perhaps their views of morality hold a strong sense of "survival of the fittest"), even if they know that most of society will view their actions as wrong). There is a difference between viewing something as "wrong" and knowing that others will view something as "wrong".
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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