View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

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    36 41.38%
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    51 58.62%
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Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #881
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    There are no inalienable rights. We can prove this over and over; one of the rare occasions we actually can prove a negative. That the DOI says there are inalienable rights only makes the DOI wrong.
    fine..... then you show me in america, in american law how you make your case.. ...just saying things does not do it for you.

    by the way.. the DOI says unalienable rights..not inalienable

  2. #882
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    fine..... then you show me in america, in american law how you make your case.. ...just saying things does not do it for you.

    by the way.. the DOI says unalienable rights..not inalienable
    Laws don't determine fact. Every right you have can be taken from you, this proves there are no inalienable rights.

    The DoI says there are inalienable rights, and since inalienable rights don't exist, the DoI is wrong.

    The Constitution says there are inalienable rights, and since inalienable rights don't exist, the Constitution is wrong.

    The law says there are inalienable rights, and since inalienable rights don't exist, the law is wrong.

    The Supreme Court says there are inalienable rights, and since inalienable rights don't exist, the Supreme Court is wrong.

    Citing legal sources to support your argument does nothing at all to actually support your argument because your sources are wrong, and we can conclusively prove this over and over.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-26-15 at 03:55 PM.

  3. #883
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    I do not believe in natural rights. This world is what you make of it. You earn what you get. Your fate is yours to change. I don't think anyone is handed a free set of rights naturally. There is always a catch - for example Americans have their rights because they are natural born citizens (there's the catch...put in place by a society).


  4. #884
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Laws don't determine fact. Every right you have can be taken from you, this proves there are no inalienable rights.

    The DoI says there are inalienable rights, and since inalienable rights don't exist, the DoI is wrong.

    The Constitution says there are inalienable rights, and since inalienable rights don't exist, the Constitution is wrong.

    The law says there are inalienable rights, and since inalienable rights don't exist, the law is wrong.

    The Supreme Court says there are inalienable rights, and since inalienable rights don't exist, the Supreme Court is wrong.
    jerry, if you think the DOI and the constitution says inalienable you are wrong already from the beginning.

  5. #885
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Constantine View Post
    I do not believe in natural rights. This world is what you make of it. You earn what you get. Your fate is yours to change. I don't think anyone is handed a free set of rights naturally. There is always a catch - for example Americans have their rights because they are natural born citizens (there's the catch...put in place by a society).
    oh.... natural rights are life and liberty, and property.

    can you kill an illegal alien, enslave him, steal his property........no therefore that person has natural rights.

  6. #886
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    oh.... natural rights are life and liberty, and property.

    can you kill an illegal alien, enslave him, steal his property........no therefore that person has natural rights.
    That doesn't mean they have natural rights. Life isn't a right at all - life is the state you are presently in whether you like it or not. Liberty is something you take and fight for - not something handed to you like a gift. Property is something you earn and take for yourself. None of these things are rights. One is a state of existence and the other two are choices made in life. Really what it comes down to is choice. You might not have natural rights but you can certainly choose how your life proceeds. The slave can be obedient or he can rise up and rebel - but that's a choice rather a right. That's one of the problems in this nation. Everyone is so sure they have a right to something that they fail to see that it's not a right but a choice. People may make the choice for you but it was never a given. People expect things now instead of trying to work for them. If you want free speech...you fight to ensure it exists. You want liberty...you fight to ensure your people are safe and free. You want privacy....you fight for your privacy. The choices we make.


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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Constantine View Post
    That doesn't mean they have natural rights. Life isn't a right at all - life is the state you are presently in whether you like it or not. Liberty is something you take and fight for - not something handed to you like a gift. Property is something you earn and take for yourself. None of these things are rights. One is a state of existence and the other two are choices made in life. Really what it comes down to is choice. You might not have natural rights but you can certainly choose how your life proceeds. The slave can be obedient or he can rise up and rebel - but that's a choice rather a right. That's one of the problems in this nation. Everyone is so sure they have a right to something that they fail to see that it's not a right but a choice. People may make the choice for you but it was never a given. People expect things now instead of trying to work for them.
    by saying there is no natural rights, you reject all law in america, because all law is built on the foundation of our organic laws.

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    by saying there is no natural rights, you reject all law in america, because all law is built on the foundation of our organic laws.
    That's one hell of a strawman argument.


  9. #889
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Constantine View Post
    That's one hell of a strawman argument.
    all american law is built on the foundation of 4 organic laws of the u.s. 3 of them contain natural law.

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    jerry, if you think the DOI and the constitution says inalienable you are wrong already from the beginning.
    Last week I showed you that UNalienable and INalienable are the same word:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    "The unalienable rights that are mentioned in the Declaration of Independence could just as well have been inalienable, which means the same thing. Inalienable or unalienable refers to that which cannot be given away or taken away."

    This also means that said rights could not have been "endowed by our Creator" because "endow" means "to give" and inalienable rights cannot be given.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-26-15 at 06:18 PM.

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