View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

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  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
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Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #871
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    There are people who find arguments or fights pleasurable while still being reasonable people.
    If a person loves another there is a natural tendency to want to please that person, so reason requires that he avoid things that he knows are unpleasant to the other party. If he doesn't, then he's not reasonable.
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    True, but then how many people do you see volunteering to go to prison? People have a natural tendency to desire their freedom.
    Actually, there are tons of repeat offenders who specifically want to go back to prison because it's easier than being on the outside. Do you ever get sick of being so ignorant?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  3. #873
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    True, but then how many people do you see volunteering to go to prison? People have a natural tendency to desire their freedom.
    It actually happens. There are people who commit crimes just to get caught and go to prison.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  4. #874
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    If a person loves another there is a natural tendency to want to please that person, so reason requires that he avoid things that he knows are unpleasant to the other party. If he doesn't, then he's not reasonable.
    No, there is only a tendency for most people to please others because of how we are raised and/or our experiences. While I find abuse horrible, abusers likely don't view their actions as unreasonable.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #875
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That's how you're acting.

    Nothing the DOI or Constitution says is relevant since they can't impact natural rights in any way.
    the constitution embodies the principles of the DOI.

    the principles of the DOI are recognized by u.s. federal law, via enabling laws.


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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the constitution embodies the principles of the DOI.

    the principles of the DOI are recognized by u.s. federal law, via enabling laws.
    You are correct, and, that doesn't matter.

    Things can always be changed. You have no right which is impervious to infringement. To keep what you have you must first apreciate that it can be taken away, and then understand that only constant vigilance can defend it. You can never let your guard down, you can never take it for granted, you can never think it will always be there. Your rights will always be under attack and you must defeat those attacks or lose your rights.

    The fight doesn't go away just because the Constitution says suchandsuch. The very real threat to your rights isn't blocked just because a court says thisorthat.

    I see your mindset allover gun forums "they can't ban guns because...... " YES THEY CAN and yes they WILL if you aren't actively combating them. Free speech is no diferent. Free religious practice is no diferent.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-26-15 at 02:00 PM.

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You are correct, and, that doesn't matter.

    Things can always be changed. You have no right which is impervious to infringement. To keep what you have you must first apreciate that it can be taken away, and then understand that only constant vigilance can defend it. You can never let your guard down, you can never take it for granted, you never think it will always be there. Your rights will always be under attack and must defeat those attacks or lose your rights.
    jerry, it is impossible to stop murder, robbery, acts of infringement on the rights of other people.....i am sure you know the founders know this too.

    to secure does not mean....to prevent/stop infringements, again there is not way stop such an act.

    alienable means rights are not granted by man, they come from a higher power then man, and since they are not in the hands of man to grant, man [government] has no authority to take them away from "the people"

    now if an individual or say a group of people commit act act against another, then via due process they can lose the life, liberty, or property, ...but because of their actions, but do the people at large lose their rights.......no!

    unalienable rights of the people as a whole are not subject to the laws of man, which is what makes them unalienable.


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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    jerry, it is impossible to stop murder, robbery, acts of infringement on the rights of other people.....i am sure you know the founders know this too.

    to secure does not mean....to prevent/stop infringements, again there is not way stop such an act.

    alienable means rights are not granted by man, they come from a higher power then man, and since they are not in the hands of man to grant, man [government] has no authority to take them away from "the people"

    now if an individual or say a group of people commit act act against another, then via due process they can lose the life, liberty, or property, ...but because of their actions, but do the people at large lose their rights.......no!

    unalienable rights of the people as a whole are not subject to the laws of man, which is what makes them unalienable.
    That's not what inalienable means. Please consult a dictionary before posting further.

  9. #879
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That's not what inalienable means. Please consult a dictionary before posting further.
    jerry....i am talking unalienable from DOI, not via the dictionary.

    because the DOI is taking about men are endowed with unalienable rights......since they are endowed and not granted by man, man has no authority over Rights of Men...which is why rights are unwritten law, if they were written law man could change them anytime he wished to.

    you are delving into "if rights are unalienable, how can you have rights alienated from you?"

    since rights are endowed to you by a higher power, when you use your life liberty and property to violate the rights of another, you have violated a covenant with the higher power, and your rights of life liberty and property, can be determined what is to be done with those rights via law.
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-26-15 at 03:00 PM.


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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    jerry....i am talking unalienable from DOI, not via the dictionary.

    because the DOI is taking about men are endowed with unalienable rights......since they are endowed and not granted by man, man has no authority over Rights of Men...which is why rights are unwritten law, if they were written law man could change them anytime he wished to.

    you are delving into "if rights are unalienable, how can you have rights alienated from you?"

    since rights are endowed to you by a higher power, when you use your life liberty and property to violate the rights of another, you have violated a covenant with the higher power, and your rights of life liberty and property, can be determined what is to be done with those rights via law.
    There are no inalienable rights. We can prove this over and over; one of the rare occasions we actually can prove a negative. Inalienable means it cannot be taken from you or given up by you. Name any right at all and we can test it here and now.

    It is impossible, literaly impossible to infringe upon an inalienable right. You're double-speaking a lover the place. An inalienable right is impervious to being taken away, that's what the word "inalienable" means.

    That the DOI says there are inalienable rights only makes the DOI wrong.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-26-15 at 03:47 PM.

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