View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

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  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
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Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #831
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Of course he can. All he has to do is make it seem like no one stands a chance against him.
    In your scenario, the dictator would be either:

    1) giving the illusion of consenting support sufficient to back his claims.
    2) in possession of consenting support sufficient to back his claims.

    In all reality, the first option is entirely unrealistic. People don't have the ability to convince a nation of their power without some significant access to power. They can exaggerate claims, certainly, but can't falsify it entirely.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

  2. #832
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    You are confusing power with rights.
    Nope. Power creates "rights." Rights are just shorthand for power distribution.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

  3. #833
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    That's great, but you still didn't answer the question.
    Assuming that collective human prosperity and stability is the goal for humans, general mayhem is counter to that goal.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

  4. #834
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Nope. Power creates "rights." Rights are just shorthand for power distribution.
    No. The two are different. Rights exist regardless of ability.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  5. #835
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Nope. Power creates "rights." Rights are just shorthand for power distribution.
    Um, no. it doesn't, unless you rape the concept of a "right":

    THE strongest is never strong enough to be always the master, unless he transforms strength into right, and obedience into duty. Hence the right of the strongest, which, though to all seeming meant ironically, is really laid down as a fundamental principle. But are we never to have an explanation of this phrase? Force is a physical power, and I fail to see what moral effect it can have. To yield to force is an act of necessity, not of will — at the most, an act of prudence. In what sense can it be a duty?

    Suppose for a moment that this so-called "right" exists. I maintain that the sole result is a mass of inexplicable nonsense. For, if force creates right, the effect changes with the cause: every force that is greater than the first succeeds to its right. As soon as it is possible to disobey with impunity, disobedience is legitimate; and, the strongest being always in the right, the only thing that matters is to act so as to become the strongest. But what kind of right is that which perishes when force fails? If we must obey perforce, there is no need to obey because we ought; and if we are not forced to obey, we are under no obligation to do so. Clearly, the word "right" adds nothing to force: in this connection, it means absolutely nothing.

    Rousseau: Social Contract: Book I
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    One person cannot dictate millions of people singlehandedly, no matter how dictatorial they may be. It takes many consenting people to enforce the wishes of one person.
    Sure, he'll need an army to suppress the population, but as long as he buys the generals off with privilege, wealth, or a good story that's not a problem. A strong internal security service that keeps doubters in line is also a good idea.
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  7. #837
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Go back and read your post and your own glaring error should scream out at you like 50,000 fans cheering on their teams grand slam home run in the bottom of the ninth.
    sorry... you know the facts

  8. #838
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    None of this matters a single iota because our Constitution does not prevent in any way any part, including the Bill of Rights, from being repealed. But more than that, the Constitution itself could simply be completely thrown out the window in the future for a number of different reasons.
    ..so what your telling me is,you cannot rebut this so you cast it aside and ignore it.

    as i stated to you before you have nothing, IN AMERICA OR AMERICAN LAW WHICH PROVES YOUR POINT.

    because your concepts defy the founding principles of the united states of america.

    rights cannot be repealed, because they are not granted by the constitution.

    question.....how can you repeal the "right to privacy" since it is not enumerated at all.

    rights are recognized by u.s. law, and the congress has never created a right.

    rights are unwritten law , like the right to privacy


    Unwritten Law
    Unwritten rules, principles, and norms that have the effect and force of law though they have not been formally enacted by the government.

    Most laws in America are written. The U.S. Code, the Code of Federal Regulations, and the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure are three examples of written laws that are frequently cited in federal court. Each state has a similar body of written laws. By contrast, unwritten law consists of those customs, traditions, practices, usages, and other maxims of human conduct that the government has recognized and enforced.

    Unwritten law is most commonly found in primitive societies where illiteracy is prevalent. Because many residents in such societies cannot read or write, there is little point in publishing written laws to govern their conduct. Instead, societal disputes in primitive societies are resolved informally, through appeal to unwritten maxims of fairness or popularly accepted modes of behavior. Litigants present their claims orally in most primitive societies, and judges announce their decisions in the same fashion. The governing body in primitive societies typically enforces the useful traditions that are widely practiced in the community, while those practices that are novel or harmful fall into disuse or are discouraged.

    Much of International Law is a form of primitive unwritten law. For centuries the Rules of War governing hostilities between belligerents consisted of a body of unwritten law. While some of these rules have been codified by international bodies such as the United Nations, many have not. For example, retaliatory reprisals against acts of Terrorism by a foreign government are still governed by unwritten customs in the international community. Each nation also retains discretion in formulating a response to the aggressive acts of a neighboring state.


    In the United States, unwritten law takes on a variety of forms. In Constitutional Law the Supreme Court has ruled that the due process clause of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution protects the right to privacy even though the word privacy is not mentioned in the written text of the Constitution. In Commercial Law the Uniform Commercial Code permits merchants to resolve legal disputes by introducing evidence of unwritten customs, practices, and usages that others in the same trade generally follow. The entire body of Common Law, comprising cases decided by judges on matters relating to torts and contracts, among other things, is said to reflect unwritten standards that have evolved over time. In each case, however, once a court, legislature, or other government body formally adopts a standard, principle, or Maxim in writing, it ceases to be an unwritten law.

    unwritten law legal definition of unwritten law


    for those who say unwritten law does not exist

    USlegal.com

    Unwritten Law Law & Legal Definition

    Unwritten law refers to the law based upon custom, usage, and judicial decisions. It is distinguished from the enactments of a legislature, orders or decrees in writing. Although an unwritten law is not enacted in the form of statute or ordinance, it has got legal sanction. An unwritten law need not be expressly evidenced in court decisions, but may be collected, gathered or implied there from under statute.
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-25-15 at 12:04 PM.

  9. #839
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    No. The two are different. Rights exist regardless of ability.
    That is the claim of "natural rights." I see all rights being products of power and cannot see how any bypass to power for manifestation.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

  10. #840
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Um, no. it doesn't, unless you rape the concept of a "right":
    Collective force is still force. Redistribution of rights still is determined by force. All those "Rights" written down on handsomely signed papers only exist because there is a collective force strong enough to declare them, distribute them, and enforce them.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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