View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

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  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
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Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #801
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If humans had a natural right to life, then God could never have killed anyone since natural rights cannot be alienated.

    Are you saying natural rights don't exist, or that God doesn't exist?
    As I said, some understand the concept and some, either deliberately or because of some kind of cognitive disconnect, cannot understand the concept. I have never said that natural rights don't exist or that God doesn't exist. I am saying that it is not necessary to accept or believe in one in order to believe in the other.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  2. #802
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    I get that we don't do that sort of thing here, but that is because we have laws based upon the concept of innate, individual rights. The problem is, the governing authority in Mosul Iraq has declared that throwing gays from tall buildings is a just and proper act. Why are they wrong? Or aren't they?
    Sure we have laws based on rights. Where would you get the impression we do not?

    And laws range from nation to nation and culture to culture.

    I would NOT support a government which allows what you describe? Is that "wrong"? I guess that would depend on whose definition you are using - ours or the nation you described.
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    WRONG!

    the bill of rights do not grants any right at all...and since no rights are granted by the bill of rights, you cannot repeal such.
    Anything in the US Constitution can be changed via Amendment unless it states clearly that it cannot. There is NO provision it it which prevents that.

    Read your Constitution

    Article V

    The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.
    there are only two protections and one of them has a time expiration which has already seen it expire.

    Any of the rights in the Bill of Rights or later can be changed or repealed via the process outlined in Article V.
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  4. #804
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Anything in the US Constitution can be changed via Amendment. There is NO provision it it which prevents that.
    that is correct....no doubt about it!

    BUT!!!,.......the bill of rights does not grant any rights.......so how can you repeal what has not been granted....

  5. #805
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    You're able to own yourself so long as those stronger do not wish to own you more.
    You are confusing power with rights.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  6. #806
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    that is correct....no doubt about it!

    BUT!!!,.......the bill of rights does not grant any rights.......so how can you repeal what has not been granted....
    Go back and read your post and your own glaring error should scream out at you like 50,000 fans cheering on their teams grand slam home run in the bottom of the ninth.
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Go back and read your post and your own glaring error should scream out at you like 50,000 fans cheering on their teams grand slam home run in the bottom of the ninth.
    i already know my own words,


    you can repeal the restrictions which are placed on the federal government by the bill of rights, but you cannot repeal rights, since the bill of rights is not granting any at all.

  8. #808
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    I get that we don't do that sort of thing here, but that is because we have laws based upon the concept of innate, individual rights. The problem is, the governing authority in Mosul Iraq has declared that throwing gays from tall buildings is a just and proper act. Why are they wrong? Or aren't they?
    From their perspective, they aren't wrong, that's why they're doing it. We have a different perspective. Neither side is objectively right or objectively wrong. Welcome to reality.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  9. #809
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The dictionary.


    The dictionary.


    I don't know any philosophers who have written modern dictionaries.
    There are many English dictionaries. I checked Merriam-Webster, and you definition is not listed under "natural right." Which are you reading that states "A Natural Right is any Human Right which cannot be forcibly denied by any means whatsoever"? Please provide a quote.

    Again, your distinction is one you have created yourself. You made up a definition of natural rights, rendering your argument semantic nonsense with no basis in how the term has been or is used and understood.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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  10. #810
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    From their perspective, they aren't wrong, that's why they're doing it. We have a different perspective. Neither side is objectively right or objectively wrong. Welcome to reality.
    The reality I live in is objective. And I have no difficulty of declaring that what they are doing is not only wrong, but objectively so. That you struggle with it is really your problem, not mine.

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