View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

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  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
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Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #671
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I am saying that the words inalienable and unalienable are synonyms. They both mean exactly the same thing.

    When used as an adjective with 'rights', they become a specific identifiable concept and puts such unalienable or inalienable or natural or God-given rights--all can be used interchangeably--into its own context different from any other and with its own definition.

    It is just like the adjective 'social' has a specific definition and the noun 'contract' has a specific definition. But when you say 'social contract' it is its own term with its own context and definition different from any other.

    Same with 'inate' and 'characteristic', each with a specific dictionary definition, but when you say 'inate characteristic', the phrase has its own definition different from each word defined by itself.
    well we will have to have a small disagreement here on the word, but the difference of opinion will remain academic anyway.

  2. #672
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    And yet you haven't been able to work out the is/ought problem, at all. You merely bumble on regardless, as if it wasn't the fundamental flaw in your argument that it is.
    As I said, I prefer to discuss such things with people who are capable of doing it without being personally insulting and who can offer a reasoned counter argument. But again, have a pleasant day or evening where you are.
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  3. #673
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    well we will have to have a small disagreement here on the word, but the difference of opinion will remain academic anyway.
    Indeed. Again I think we are close to being on the same page. Splitting hairs over semantics doesn't really move the discussion forward.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  4. #674
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    As I said, I prefer to discuss such things with people who are capable of doing it without being personally insulting
    You might want to check on how insulting patronising foreigners is before you take the moral high ground.
    I know it is difficult for non-Americans to understand the concept of unalienable rights as the basis of what true liberty is because you've never experienced it.
    and who can offer a reasoned counter argument.
    I fear it's reason that you're struggling with here. Your argument lacks it.
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  5. #675
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    You might want to check on how insulting patronising foreigners is before you take the moral high ground.

    I fear it's reason that you're struggling with here. Your argument lacks it.
    Well you know what? I am an American with the purpose of having hopefully intelligent and stimulating discussion on an American based message board. And while I have friends, and have had on occasion relatives, who live in your fair country, I see no reason to ignore rudeness just because you don't live here. Again, if you don't like what I have to say, just ignore it. No need to make things harder than they have to be.
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  6. #676
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Rights are whatever you can defend, be it through individual strength or collective teamwork.
    Then how are people not entitled to the 'right' to self-defense? You claim we dont, that we MUST let a judge and jury decide.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Jerkoffness is protected by The Constitution. That's what makes America great.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  7. #677
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Then how are people not entitled to the 'right' to self-defense? You claim we dont, that we MUST let a judge and jury decide.
    I believe the judge and jury don't decide whether you have the right to self-defence, but whether or not your actions constitute self-defence, no?
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

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  8. #678
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    and that has ZERO, nada, ZILCH to do with the scope of the rights in the bill of rights
    Actually what it does it proves you presented a falsehood about the beliefs of Jefferson as stated in his famous statement about natural rights in the Declaration.

    I will leave it to others to deduce why in the world would you do something so inherently intellectually dishonest.
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Does Roman Catholicism or Islam exist?

    you are trying to apply one version of existence to a philosophy improperly in order to pretend that the bill of rights do not prevent the sort of government idiocy you crave
    That post makes no sense as a reply to what I wrote and you reproduced as the lead in.
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    You're right. No one can prove you can't give away your right to pursue happiness or that you'd attempt to exercise it in a state of nature. I just accept it as common sense. (I could have called it "self-evident.") Perhaps you can prove the contrary with facts? I'd bet my left nut you can't.
    I love terms like COMMON SENSE as substitutes to saying "well I really cannot prove what I claim to believe but its just _________ ____________".



    I have no idea what you are asking me to prove since your statement about natural rights and the pursuit of happiness makes no sense.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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