View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

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  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
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Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #641
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I have now posted numerous definitions on the word from numerous sources. And all are in agreement. Something that is not 'subject to' means it cannot be done. You cannot sell, barter, or give away an unalienable right nor can anyone take it from you. You can agree not to exercise an unalienable right and somebody might prevent you from exercising it, but you still have it nevertheless.
    If someone prevents you from exercising a right, you therefore do not have it, because if you had the right you could do it no matter how much they don't like it.

    If some posts a no-gun sign in their private building, I therefore do not have the right to carry there. Since my right to self defence was blocked, that proves the right to self defense is not a Natural Right.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-21-15 at 03:10 AM.

  2. #642
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I have now posted numerous definitions on the word from numerous sources. And all are in agreement. Something that is not 'subject to' means it cannot be done. You cannot sell, barter, or give away an unalienable right nor can anyone take it from you. You can agree not to exercise an unalienable right and somebody might prevent you from exercising it, but you still have it nevertheless.
    And yet someone can prevent you from exercising it too. This is one of those abstruse arguments like whether a tree falling in a deserted forest really makes a noise. Can a right that cannot be exercised be said to exist? Can it be said to be inalienable if one can be prevented from exercising it? if one argues that it can, then the concept of a right becomes something altogether hypothetical.
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  3. #643
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If someone prevents you from exercising a right, you therefore do not have it, because if you had the right you could do it no matter how much they don't like it.

    If some posts a no-gun sign in their private building, I therefore do not have the right to carry there. Since my right to self defence was blocked, that proves the right to self defense is not a Natural Right.
    Ah, I think I just parroted your argument in my last post. Well put!
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  4. #644
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    And yet someone can prevent you from exercising it too. This is one of those abstruse arguments like whether a tree falling in a deserted forest really makes a noise. Can a right that cannot be exercised be said to exist? Can it be said to be inalienable if one can be prevented from exercising it? if one argues that it can, then the concept of a right becomes something altogether hypothetical.
    Yes an unalienable right can and does exist whether or not it is exercised for any reason. All you have to do is read the dictionary definitions to know that. And it is not the lest bit hypothetical. You cannot buy or sell or barter or give away or receive your concept of what it is to pursue happiness. Somebody else may prevent you from doing it or you may choose not to do it, but it remains yours nevertheless. The Constitution was written so that the federal government was prohibited from preventing you from doing it and was prohibited from interfering with any of your other unalienable rights.
    Last edited by AlbqOwl; 05-21-15 at 03:38 AM.
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  5. #645
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    How about the right to peaceably assemble? It's not like they're going to riot or anything.


    They are peaceably assembled in marble gardens all over this planet, exercising their natural rights.

  6. #646
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Yes an unalienable right can and does exist whether or not it is exercised for any reason.
    Then you are changing the meaning of 'in-' or 'unalienable' from meaning 'is not subject to being taken away from of given away by the possessor' to 'should not be taken away from or given away by the possessor'. All you have to do is read the dictionary definitions to know that.

    And it is not the lest bit hypothetical. You cannot buy or sell or barter or give away or receive your concept of what it is to pursue happiness.
    Now you appear to be quibbling, because something entirely 'conceptual' IS hypothetical.

    Somebody else may prevent you from doing it or you may choose not to do it, but it remains yours nevertheless.
    In a hypothetical sense, yes.

    The Constitution was written so that the federal government was prohibited from preventing you from doing it and was prohibited from interfering with any of your other unalienable rights.
    Sorry, I zoned out here because what your constitution says has no relevance to me.
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  7. #647
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    complete nonsense. Jefferson certainly believed HE, and those Like him had natural rights
    The nonsense is in your refusal to wreathe words that Jefferson actually wrote and which others signed - ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL and have rights including LIBERTY.

    How you or anyone else can pretend to deny that basic reality is beyond understanding.
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    No, I don't understand why you think natural rights exist at all. What you've got there is what we call wishful thinking. It's a fantasy. It's something that appeals to you on a purely emotional level, not on an intellectual one. You have no rational justification for these claims you make but it makes you feel good to keep making them. That's why the whole concept is laughable and why nobody is taking you seriously.
    Best post of the day!!!!
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  9. #649
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    what do you mean by "real"?
    Something that many right libertarians truly have never understood as the very concept is outside of their self imposed belief system.
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  10. #650
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The nonsense is in your refusal to wreathe words that Jefferson actually wrote and which others signed - ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL and have rights including LIBERTY.

    How you or anyone else can pretend to deny that basic reality is beyond understanding.
    that has nothing to do with reality. You pretend that Jefferson's failure to include blacks some how means he didn't believe that WHITE MEN (citizens) had natural rights
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

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