View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

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  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
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Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #611
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Then you ought to be able to present a solid argument in proper logical form to explain it and demonstrate that it's real. Go ahead. We'll wait.
    I tell you what. Let me just admit that I can't prove God's "real" from an objective or empirical standpoint, just like I can't prove little green men with ray guns occupy the cosmos even though I think we're not alone in the universe. Now, if you're going to insist that what we call "God," or what philosophers envision as some sort of constant "force" in the universe that we're incapable of measuring or understanding, doesn't exist, then show your hand now, please. I'm betting you can't. So instead of us wasting everyone's time on this point let me just call my god the "God of Reason" who tells me killing millions of people is wrong.
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Again, you are continuing to confuse the right to the thing with the thing itself.


    I realize Heinlein made this argument in Starship Troopers, which was an excellent book, and it sounded really smart when we were 14.... but we're not 14 anymore, and he was wrong.
    I have that book on Audible, so much better than the movie, but I was thinking of Man's Serch For Meaning. Maybe if you read some non-fiction once in a while you would have a better understanding of the world.

  3. #613
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    It's perfectly valid. According to you, because my neighbor can't exercise his right to keep his nickel his right doesn't exist.
    You equate an inanimate tangible object with an intangible philosophical concept? Seriously?

    Well, ok, carry on then, but you'll have to do so without me. I have no time or desire to engage in continued tomfoolery.
    Last edited by radcen; 05-20-15 at 08:05 PM.
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  4. #614
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I have that book on Audible, so much better than the movie, but I was thinking of Man's Serch For Meaning. Maybe if you read some non-fiction once in a while you would have a better understanding of the world.
    1. The movie was atrocious. It was so bad, it was good-bad. The sequels were even exponentially worse/better for that aspect alone.

    2. Dude. I am halfway done with a second masters degree. I have walls of non-fiction. Literally half of my job is to read non-fiction, and the other half is to understand the world and be able to explain it. Fiction is my escape from non-fiction.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  5. #615
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Turtle - for many of us who do not believe in natural rights it has nothing at all to do with any attitude about religion. What it has to do with is a couple of very undeniable historical facts:

    1- natural rights came about as a theory because the political philosophers were searching for a counter weapon to the divine right of kings. It was simply a way of offering a trump card to divine right.

    2- when Jefferson used it in the Declaration of Independence it was used merely as justification for the very real actions they were taking as a direct slap in the face of the British throne and their authority. Even Jefferson did not believe the actual words he wrote as he lived a life completely opposite of his pompous statements.

    3- the Constitution and state constitutions create rights that may have been partly inspired by some peoples beliefs - but those beliefs do nothing in and of themselves as it is people acting through their created government that create the rights we have.

    4 - If not one person in the world or our nation today even remembered the term natural rights - we would still have the same rights we have because of the national and state constitutions. So they are irrelevant.

    People can go to church all day and night for all I care. It matters not to me . This is NOT about hatred of religion.
    complete nonsense. Jefferson certainly believed HE, and those Like him had natural rights
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    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
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    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    2. Dude. I am halfway done with a second masters degree. I have walls of non-fiction. Literally half of my job is to read non-fiction, and the other half is to understand the world and be able to explain it. Fiction is my escape from non-fiction.
    Your posts don't show that.

  7. #617
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    But you're the one differentiating "natural" rights from other kinds of rights. If there is no difference, if you cannot demonstrate that they're real, then just drop the "natural" part. You cannot justify it, why should anyone take it seriously?
    you don't seem to understand why I find natural rights to be so important. they are part of a philosophy that exists. trying to impose one concept of existence on "things" that are not defined that way is stupid. Does say "roman catholicism" exist? or angry atheism? sure they do-but not the same way say Iron ore or helium gas exists. same with Natural rights vs. a concrete block
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

  8. #618
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Your posts don't show that.
    then report them again for no reason.


    You continue to confuse the right to something with the thing itself. When this is pointed out to you, either you ignore it, or you shift to a personal attack.



    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Natural Rights can't be given by the state, so if the state gave you a given right, that right is not a Natural Right. More likely it's a Civil Right.
    While natural rights aren't granted by the state, they can be upheld and enforced by the state. According to our founding document, securing natural rights is the principal purpose of civil government. Living is a natural right. Voting is a civil right. Both can create cause for a person to seek remedy or damages in a civil court.
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    You equate an inanimate tangible object with an intangible philosophical concept? Seriously?
    No, I equate my neighbor's right to keep his nickel with a philosophical concept called "the natural right to property," which Locke wrote about in his Second Treatise.
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