View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

Voters
87. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
Page 56 of 100 FirstFirst ... 646545556575866 ... LastLast
Results 551 to 560 of 994

Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #551
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 10:08 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,333

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomkat364 View Post
    The use of the term God, referring to anything, indicates a belief in a higher power. Added to the term Creator, I don't think you can argue that they were leaving this open to a non-religious interpretation. These were religious men who created a government based on Judeo-Christian ideals. They believed in allowing others to freely practice the religion of their choice, but that doesn't change the nature of THEIR beliefs and the impact that those beliefs had on our government. They are saying that these rights are granted by a higher power. Thus, use of the DOI to justify 'natural rights' that do not involve a higher power is the same as playing "Born in the USA" at a patriotic gathering: The user just doesn't understand or admit to the meaning of the words, and is trying to pretend that the very clear language carries ambiguity that was just not intended.
    i have stated a higher power, which is what founders wanted to convey, because they removed the direct idea of religion in the document by removing the word "sacred", leaving the document more subjective.


    We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independant, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these ends, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed;

    the government of the u.s. is not religious at all, as one of the most religious men of the founders tells us, john adams in the Treaty of Tripoli

    the nation as a whole was built for a religious and moral people.

  2. #552
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 10:08 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,333

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    If you agree, then what are you fussing with me about?
    crossed wires here on your part.

  3. #553
    Sage
    Ahlevah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Flyoverland
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:01 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,540

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    slaves were considered "property" and not people
    Yes, but there's evidence Jefferson regarded slaves as human, that he had at least a few moral qualms about whether slavery was just, and this posed a prophetic problem for the new republic:

    With the morals of the people, their industry also is [300] destroyed. For in a warm climate, no man will labour for himself who can make another labour for him. This is so true, that of the proprietors of slaves a very small proportion indeed are ever seen to labour. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep forever: that considering numbers, nature and natural means only, a revolution of the wheel of fortune, an exchange of situation, is among possible events: that it may become probable by supernatural interference! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in such a contest.—But it is impossible to be temperate and to pursue this subject through the various considerations of policy, of morals, of history natural and civil. We must be contented to hope they will force their way into every one’s mind. I think a change already perceptible, since the origin of the present revolution. The spirit of the master is [301] abating, that of the slave rising from the dust, his condition mollifying, the way I hope preparing, under the auspices of heaven, for a total emancipation, and that this is disposed, in the order of events, to be with the consent of the masters, rather than by their extirpation.

    http://thefederalistpapers.integrate...f-Virginia.pdf

    Notes on the State of Virginia, QUERY XVIII: The particular customs and manners that may happen to be received in that State?
    Нава́льный 2018

  4. #554
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 10:08 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,333

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Go ahead if you think the definitions I posted for both law dictionaries are not what they say.
    i gave you Bouvier's Law Dictionary ....1856 Edition there 1914 version is the same...both have inalienable and unalienable listed separately, with different meanings

    i will post the links of 1828 Websters....both have inalienable and unalienable listed separately, with different meanings

    Websters Dictionary 1828 - Online Edition

    Blacks law 2nd 1910...both have inalienable and unalienable listed separately, with different meanings

    Black's Law Dictionary 2nd Ed

    when you get into more modern interpretations of the words, they are put together.

  5. #555
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 10:08 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,333

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Yes, but there's evidence Jefferson regarded slaves as human, that he had at least a few moral qualms about whether slavery was just, and this posed a prophetic problem for the new republic:
    well i was not arguing that point, i was just pointing out how the people of that time got around the principles of the DOI...having slavery

  6. #556
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 01:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    16,202
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i gave you Bouvier's Law Dictionary ....1856 Edition there 1914 version is the same...both have inalienable and unalienable listed separately, with different meanings

    i will post the links of 1828 Websters....both have inalienable and unalienable listed separately, with different meanings

    Websters Dictionary 1828 - Online Edition

    Blacks law 2nd 1910...both have inalienable and unalienable listed separately, with different meanings

    Black's Law Dictionary 2nd Ed

    when you get into more modern interpretations of the words, they are put together.
    I just checked the Webster's link you posted and again 'inalienable' and 'unalienable' mean exactly the same thing and are interchangeable. I don't find the definitions at all in the Black's link provided here.

    I think you may be defending something you thought you saw but maybe read wrong? I think we are pretty much on the same page on this other than our understanding of the definitions of those two words.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  7. #557
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 10:08 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,333

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I just checked the Webster's link you posted and again 'inalienable' and 'unalienable' mean exactly the same thing and are interchangeable.

    I think you may be defending something you thought you saw but maybe read wrong? I think we are pretty much on the same page on this other than our understanding of the definitions of those two words.


    remember when i talked about the word "legally"....

    with inalienable you can consent by your own will to wave your rights, with unalienable you cannot wave anything.

    a good source of info

    https://adask.wordpress.com/2009/07/...s-inalienable/

    time is getting short for me i must go, have a good day, and to everyone else as well

  8. #558
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 01:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    16,202
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    remember when i talked about the word "legally"....

    with inalienable you can consent by your own will to wave your rights, with unalienable you cannot wave anything.

    a good source of info

    https://adask.wordpress.com/2009/07/...s-inalienable/

    time is getting short for me i must go, have a good day, and to everyone else as well
    I cannot think of a single unalienable/inalienable right that we can waive for any reason which is why such rights are unalienable/inalienable. All we can do is be denied the ability to ACT on those rights in a public way--and that can be via legal means or by illegal means--or we can choose not to ACT on those rights in a public way and again that can be via legal means or not. Again I think we are probably in agreement but differ a bit in the definitions.

    Anyhow I have a truckload of groceries to help unload and put away here, so you have a good day too.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  9. #559
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    84,300

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you see you don't even know what you were even arguing about......you are just arguing to argue.
    your post to me makes no sense with the lead in you reproduced.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #560
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    84,300

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so what did the 2A recognize given the supreme court in Cruikshank held that the 2A recognized a pre-existing right

    that is why your argument is specious and you think that the way to obliterate the 2A is to pretend its foundation does not exist
    How many times have we been through the same field of mud?

    Cruikshank expressed an opinion about a belief. That does NOT make that belief suddenly turn into reality. Of course, you should be aware of that since it has not changed with the rising and setting of a few suns since the pastime you were explained the same thing.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

Page 56 of 100 FirstFirst ... 646545556575866 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •