View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

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  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
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Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #501
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Your position is iconsistent with reality and the actual words of the Amendment.

    Here is my position:

    The Second Amendment says that the American people have the right to keep and bear arms. The duly elected representatives of the American people may exercise their Constitutional powers to enact legislation controlling and regulating firearms so long as they do not create an environment where the people cannot exercise their right.




    Now who agrees with me?




    Every single legislator who has voted for any regulation of firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single legislative body who has voted to pass a law for the regulation of firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single governor who has proposed a law for any regulation of firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single governor who has signed into law any regulation of firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single president proposed a law for any regulation of firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single president who has signed into law any regulation of firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single judge or justice who has upheld the constitutionality of a law regulating firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single Court which has voted to uphold the constitutionality of a law regulating firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.




    And it is the agreement of all those above with my interpretation which counts in the final analysis.

    You trying to justify your belief about guns based on another belief - natural rights - means nothing since it is only a theory and cannot be proven to be true or real beyond a belief.
    where were those legislators given such power

    and the repeat spam is noted
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

  2. #502
    Sage

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    where were those legislators given such power

    and the repeat spam is noted
    In the Constitution. But you know that because you and I have danced to this tune more times than anybody cares to remember.
    Truth is not spam - no matter how many times it is repeated
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  3. #503
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    In the Constitution. But you know that because you and I have danced to this tune more times than anybody cares to remember.
    Truth is not spam - no matter how many times it is repeated
    its spam because you repeat it constantly and it doesn't prove anything that you claim

    lots of politicians are contemptuous of the constitution and figure if they can get away with it without the court slapping them down, so be it
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

  4. #504
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    its spam because you repeat it constantly and it doesn't prove anything that you claim

    lots of politicians are contemptuous of the constitution and figure if they can get away with it without the court slapping them down, so be it
    Reality proves I am right and repeating it is a public service.

    Yeah - I get it - any official who does not agree with you is to be held in contempt.
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  5. #505
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Reality proves I am right and repeating it is a public service.

    Yeah - I get it - any official who does not agree with you is to be held in contempt.
    you haven't proved anything-and your claim that the natural right is not infringed until you cannot own a single firearm is beyond dishonest.

    and yes, most politicians are contemptuous of the Constitution since it limits their powers
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

  6. #506
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Right, exactly, and that means they are not inalienable rights, because they can all be taken away.
    Well, no. As I said, only the grantor of a right can "take it away," if by "take it away" we're referring to "alienate" as it's understood by pretty much everyone with one possible exception. If the state grants you a right to be repaid for a debt but then I renege on repaying you, according to you I've "taken away" your right to be repaid. Honestly, that's one right I'd call pretty much worthless. The people who founded this country happened to believe that natural rights aren't granted be men, so no man can "take them away" as you apparently maintain. Now, if you're going to maintain that there are no natural rights, then proceed with your proof, please.
    Нава́льный 2018

  7. #507
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That's a right under civil law, a Civil Right. That is not a Natural right.
    Did you just declare that a natural right is not a natural right? When you refer to 'That's," what are you talking about? Anyway, in a state of nature, there is no civil law. That's a societal invention.
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  8. #508
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you haven't proved anything-and your claim that the natural right is not infringed until you cannot own a single firearm is beyond dishonest.

    and yes, most politicians are contemptuous of the Constitution since it limits their powers
    There is no natural right to infringe upon. Thus falls your entire premise.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  9. #509
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That's the rub...the Constitution says something is a Natural Right, but the thing it names very clearly is not a Natural Right, which means the Constitution is wrong. The DOI is wrong. The founders were wrong.
    no, sorry.
    Anti-Democracy advocate, Mixed government is the only good government

    THE
    second point to be examined is, whether the [constitutional ]convention were authorized to frame and propose this mixed Constitution.


  10. #510
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Everyone who wants to participate in a thread is free to do so and is thus part of that conversation as it is all public and open to all. If you want a PRIVATE conversation with another poster, the board has a PM service they provide. If you do not know how to use it I will be happy to guide you through.
    let me set you straight so you know what you are talking about.

    first..i going to keep this as short as i can.


    i stated to another poster, that the DOI was subjective but he did not quite agree, he believed it to be more a religious document.

    i stated to him that Jefferson's first original draft of the document was more religious, then the one in the national archives now.

    then you jumped in and started and accused me of creating things on my own.

    thats when i told you to "read the original draft"
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-20-15 at 10:48 AM.
    Anti-Democracy advocate, Mixed government is the only good government

    THE
    second point to be examined is, whether the [constitutional ]convention were authorized to frame and propose this mixed Constitution.


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