View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

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  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
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Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #41
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    But I was not arguing the laws or ethics governing entitlements. I was arguing the difference between unalienable/natural rights and entitlements.
    True. That's why I said your entire post was correct.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  2. #42
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Embarrassing confession time: I have literally no idea why "natural rights" are brought into certain threads when they are.
    Often, at least in my experience, it's because people, mostly libertarians, have no means of defending their core beliefs, therefore they simply assert that it must be true and therefore, they don't have to actually provide arguments for them. In a lot of ways, it's like a religion. They insist they're right because they really want to be right and they have a long line of people who thought they were right, which is the only thing that seems to matter to them.

    I find it all absurd.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  3. #43
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Is it? Did man think up the ability to breathe? To think? To hope? To aspire? To defend oneself and/or survive? To do what makes us happy or grateful or satisfied? Or are we born with such traits/ability as human beings without anybody willing that it be so?
    You are confusing rights and abilities. I have the ability to kill someone. Does that mean it's a right? I have the ability to burn down a forest. Does that make it a right? I didn't think so.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  4. #44
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by PIPEWRENCH View Post
    Just because evil people and evil governments can take away or restrict natural rights does not mean they do not exist.
    It doesn't mean they do either. Those who propose such things must be able to demonstrate that they are real. When do you think any libertarian-leaning person might actually show these things are real?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  5. #45
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    No. Man just identified and gave a name to natural rights. Like I said.
    How were these things identified and what is the specific process for determining what is a natural right and what is not?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  6. #46
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    How were these things identified and what is the specific process for determining what is a natural right and what is not?
    You have shown yourself to be ignorant of natural rights in past discussions.

  7. #47
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You have shown yourself to be ignorant of natural rights in past discussions.
    No, I understand the claims made by libertarians. You are simply ignorant of the burden of proof, which is entirely on you. Maybe you should try backing up your claims with evidence, not wishful thinking.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  8. #48
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    No, I understand the claims made by libertarians. You are simply ignorant of the burden of proof, which is entirely on you. Maybe you should try backing up your claims with evidence, not wishful thinking.
    You don't even understand the concept of self ownership.

  9. #49
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    This topic seems to have popped up in a few threads recently so I thought I'd put this together. Put simply do you believe in the concept of natural rights? That is to say rights that are "not contingent upon the laws, customs, or beliefs of any particular culture or government, and therefore universal and inalienable".

    Personally I don't. I think that Hobbes had it right when he intimated that the only 'natural right' that a human being possesses is the right to strive for their own survival. Everything else exists only at the sufferance of your own strength or the kindness of others. It is part of what makes civilization so essential and so valuable, because by creating a society we attempt to lift ourselves out of that war of all against all. This allows for freedom of speech, property rights, press freedoms, freedom of worship, etc. Absent organized society these 'rights' would be purely theoretical.
    The trouble with the concept is the word "right". That's a legal term and thus a philosophy. The only "rights" that exist are those selected by the governed and agreed upon by those who govern. Without the rule of law in that context rights would not exist.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  10. #50
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You don't even understand the concept of self ownership.
    You don't understand the concept of evidence.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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