View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

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  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
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Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #451
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Usually the name calling begins when your opponent has run out of arguments. I take it as a sign that he's growing tired and is about to bail to another thread.
    For sure there are exceptions, but almost always when the argument turns personal and/or they start throwing in a lot of unrelated stuff to deflect from the argument, or they keep a circular argument that has been adequately refuted going, you know they're out of ammo. That's when I can smugly pat myself on the back and declare myself the winner. (And mercy, some make it so easy to do that.)
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    because i just pointed out to the other poster.... that the original DOI was more religious then one which is in the national archives...
    That DOES NOT change the language nor the meaning of the actual statement in the Declaration. You are grasping at straws and then attempting to build a cathedral with them.
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  3. #453
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    It appears you're still confused.
    On the contrary, I have perfect clarity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    First of all, a principle can be a fact. Secondly, "due process" is a legal doctrine that bears little relation to the concept of a natural right, so when you try to blend the two you're mixing apples with oranges. Also, you're attempting to redefine the context and understanding of "inalienable" as it's been understood by philosophers going back at least to the ancient Greeks. Finally, when you assert that one person can, as a matter of fact, kill another, you're referring to a natural law, not a right.

    Now, I can't empirically or objectively prove that killing 50 or 60 million people in the span of just a few years like Mao did was wrong, and, for the sake of argument, I'm willing to concede that. On the other hand, when you claim that there is no inalienable, natural right to life the burden of proof falls to you. On what basis do you make that claim?
    Keep reading my every post from that, to this. It's very simple.

    In order to be a Natural Right, the right in question must be immune to being taken away from you, nor can you willingly give it up. It's yours regardless.

    Name any right and we'll put it to the question.

  4. #454
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    For sure there are exceptions, but almost always when the argument turns personal and/or they start throwing in a lot of unrelated stuff to deflect from the argument, or they keep a circular argument that has been adequately refuted going, you know they're out of ammo. That's when I can smugly pat myself on the back and declare myself the winner. (And mercy, some make it so easy to do that.)
    When I pat myself on the back is when I see people trying to squash a discussion because it hits far too close to home for their comfort. The idea that far right views are not reality based and are a form of mental disorder seems to be one of those things that some here would rather not face.
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    They don't need to recieve my life.

    My life needs only to be alienated from me.
    So you didn't understand the definition of 'unalienable'. Oh well. That does explain a lot.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  6. #456
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    When I pat myself on the back is when I see people trying to squash a discussion because it hits far too close to home for their comfort. The idea that far right views are not reality based and are a form of mental disorder seems to be one of those things that some here would rather not face.
    It was my distinct impression that this discussion was not about anybody's mental disorder but was a discussion of unalienable or natural rights. But trying to deflect it to a discussion of mental disorder definitely reinforces my opinion about who won the argument.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    It was my distinct impression that this discussion was not about anybody's mental disorder but was a discussion of unalienable or natural rights. But trying to deflect it to a discussion of mental disorder definitely reinforces my opinion about who won the argument.
    And what if the views expressed can be explained by a willful mental delusion taken on by the poster or holder?
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    So you didn't understand the definition of 'unalienable'. Oh well. That does explain a lot.
    I've demonstrated perfect understanding. If all you wish to do at this point is act like an ass, maybe you should take another sabaticle from DP.

  9. #459
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And what if the views expressed can be explained by a willful mental delusion taken on by the poster or holder?
    Doesn't matter who holds the views or how they are expressed. Whether the views themselves are right or false, can be defended or only denied. That is what matters.
    Last edited by AlbqOwl; 05-19-15 at 12:09 PM. Reason: corrected incorrect syntax - changed 'does' to 'doesn't'
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Does matter who holds the views or how they are expressed. Whether the views themselves are right or false, can be defended or only denied. That is what matters.
    I agree somewhat with that. But when the supposed defense is based solely upon belief and that belief system is clearly NOT reality based and their views that are being forwarded are obviously far fringe positions that are not even shared by a single Supreme Court Justice in 225 years - that tells you volumes about the irrational nature of them. And it is right and appropriate to make that delusional belief system part of the discussion since that is what is producing the views in the first place.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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