View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

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  • Yes

    36 41.38%
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    51 58.62%
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Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #431
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    And since your rights to both life and liberty can each be aliened from you, they are not inalienable, which in turn means they are not Natural Rights.
    a person always has rights, however at times those rights are suppressed like being in prison following due process of law.

    governments who use force to surprise rights to keep people under control

    but all men were originally born free in the world, it is the actions of others who suppress those rights.

    is it natural for me to:

    speak

    pray

    associate

    defend myself...among others
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-19-15 at 11:49 AM.

  2. #432
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You have clearly stated that you believe natural rights come from a Creator - a god or God and that is what the Declaration says.
    the key word here is "YOU".....that is my personal opinion....but the DOI is subject to the reader and not what i believe.


    Unlike you...... my personal ideas/beliefs, don't get in the way of law like yours do.

  3. #433
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Not in the slightest: Unalienable / Inalienable

    "The unalienable rights that are mentioned in the Declaration of Independence could just as well have been inalienable, which means the same thing. Inalienable or unalienable refers to that which cannot be given away or taken away."

    Your right to life can be taken away from you. This proves your right to life is not inalienable, which means your right to life is not a Natural Right.
    No. Your life cannot be taken from you by anybody nor can you transfer it, sell it, or give it away to anybody else. It can be ended by somebody killing you. But he who kills you did not receive your life in the process.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  4. #434
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    NO - you posted your opinion about what it meant. And that is based on willful delusion as not a single Supreme Court decision in 225 years supports your extremist, far right fringe view of the powers of the federal government. Not one single decision.

    Its just you out there on that far far far right extremist limb with no one else there who has ever had the responsibility of interpreting the Constitution and making the kind of inane statement that you have done here.
    i don't need a decision from USSC , because the founders themselves PROVE MY POINT!...which i have posted many times.

  5. #435
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    well i have said the [DOI] is subjective to the reader, meaning rights can come from god, your humanity, nature itself, it up to the reader and his own interpretation, but that rights do not come from man.
    Not sure a statement "that they are endowed by their Creator" is open to subjective interpretation. The authors are specifically stating that these rights are derived from a higher power. You can feel free to disagree with the statement itself, but it is entirely evident that the DOI was written by religious authors with a religious understanding of rights.

  6. #436
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the key word here is "YOU".....that is my personal opinion....but the DOI is subject to the reader and not what i believe.


    Unlike you...... my personal ideas/beliefs, don't get in the way of law like yours do.
    What unmitigated BS! Your personal beliefs are so intertwined with everything you post that it is impossible to separate one from the other. Your fast talking scam - "its up to the reader" is such unadulterated nonsense as a wannabe escape hatch permitting you to not have to debate the idea of gods dispensing rights like Halloween candy in the sky is so transparent that it is laughable. And that is the sole purpose of it.
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  7. #437
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i don't need a decision from USSC , because the founders themselves PROVE MY POINT!...which i have posted many times.
    Thanks for confirming that you cannot find a decision which supports your absurd claim that the federal government has no authority over people.. That shows you just how far extremist.... how far on the fringe ... how divorced from reality .... how you live in another world not reality based it is that not one decision in 225 agrees with such unadulterated nonsense.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  8. #438
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomkat364 View Post
    Not sure a statement "that they are endowed by their Creator" is open to subjective interpretation. The authors are specifically stating that these rights are derived from a higher power. You can feel free to disagree with the statement itself, but it is entirely evident that the DOI was written by religious authors with a religious understanding of rights.

    When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    what is the god of nature...some do not equate that to the god of heaven

    Jefferson original draft was more of a religious nature, the final draft toned it down more.

  9. #439
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    what is the god of nature...some do not equate that to the god of heaven

    Jefferson original draft was more of a religious nature, the final draft toned it down more.
    so now you are reduced to picking through drafts and scraps to find some language you believe allows you to fudge this issue even more? Amazing!!!!!
    __________________________________________________ _
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  10. #440
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Thanks for confirming that you cannot find a decision which supports your absurd claim. That shows you just how far extremist it is that not one decision in 225 agrees with such unadulterated nonsense.
    don't need one, the founders say the federal government has no power in the lifes liberty and property of the people....that is fact.......

    you emotional content........is a breath of fresh air to the conversation......because it spells your desperation

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