View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

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  • Yes

    36 41.38%
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Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #421
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If 1787 ever comes around again, you let us all know. Until there is such a breach in the space time continuum and that unlikely event happens - deal with reality EB. It makes rational thought so much easier.
    this shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

    i posted in original constitutional law...you challenged it

    then you hand me this.....no wonder you constantly fail!

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I have, I even linked to it in this thread in support of my argument.
    Then you are contradicting yourself are you not?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    again the word in not INALIENABLE

    UNALIENABLE means rights are not granted by man but by a higher power, which is out of the control of man.

    government is to secure rights......it does not mean they can stop rights violations, it means government uses positive laws made by man to settle the violation.
    Think about what you just said.

    Why would you need a government to secure something that cannot be taken away from you?

  4. #424
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    A LAW DICTIONARY
    ADAPTED TO THE CONSTITUTION AND LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND OF THE SEVERAL STATES OF THE AMERICAN UNION
    by John Bouvier in 1839

    Revised Sixth Edition, 1856

    INALIENABLE. A word denoting the condition of those things the property in which cannot be lawfully transferred from one person to another. Public highways and rivers are inalienable. There are also many rights which are inalienable, as the rights of liberty or of speech.”


    UNALIENABLE. Incapable of being transferred. Things which are not in commerce, as, public roads, are in their nature unalienable. Some things are unalienable in consequence of particular provisions of the law forbidding their sale or transfer; as, pensions granted by the government.

    The natural rights of life and liberty are unalienable.”

    Black‘s 2nd (A.D. 1910)


    INALIENABLE.“Not subject to alienation; the characteristic of those things which cannot be bought or sold or transferred from one person to another such as rivers and public highways and certain personal rights; e.g., liberty.”


    UNALIENABLE..“Incapable of being aliened, that is, sold and transferred.”[/QUOTE]
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-19-15 at 11:33 AM.

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Then you are contradicting yourself are you not?
    Not in the slightest: http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/unalienable.htm

    "The unalienable rights that are mentioned in the Declaration of Independence could just as well have been inalienable, which means the same thing. Inalienable or unalienable refers to that which cannot be given away or taken away."

    Your right to life can be taken away from you. This proves your right to life is not inalienable, which means your right to life is not a Natural Right.

  6. #426
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    UNALIENABLE rights



    The Declaration of Independence: A Transcription

    IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

    The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

    When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
    Sorry, UNalienable. Doesn't change the fact that the view of such rights, as expressed in the DOI, was highly contingent on a higher power that granted them. (I share this viewpoint, so I am not arguing against such a power. I am arguing that use of the DOI to support our governmental view of 'natural rights' requires the acknowledgement of the religious backing of such rights.)

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    A LAW DICTIONARY
    ADAPTED TO THE CONSTITUTION AND LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND OF THE SEVERAL STATES OF THE AMERICAN UNION
    by John Bouvier in 1839

    Revised Sixth Edition, 1856

    INALIENABLE. A word denoting the condition of those things the property in which cannot be lawfully transferred from one person to another. Public highways and rivers are inalienable. There are also many rights which are inalienable, as the rights of liberty or of speech.”


    UNALIENABLE. Incapable of being transferred. Things which are not in commerce, as, public roads, are in their nature unalienable. Some things are unalienable in consequence of particular provisions of the law forbidding their sale or transfer; as, pensions granted by the government.

    The natural rights of life and liberty are unalienable.”

    Black‘s 2nd (A.D. 1910)


    INALIENABLE.“Not subject to alienation; the characteristic of those things which cannot be bought or sold or transferred from one person to another such as rivers and public highways and certain personal rights; e.g., liberty.”


    UNALIENABLE..“Incapable of being aliened, that is, sold and transferred.”
    And since your rights to both life and liberty can each be aliened from you, they are not inalienable, which in turn means they are not Natural Rights.

  8. #428
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomkat364 View Post
    sorry, unalienable. Doesn't change the fact that the view of such rights, as expressed in the doi, was highly contingent on a higher power that granted them. (i share this viewpoint, so i am not arguing against such a power. I am arguing that use of the doi to support our governmental view of 'natural rights' requires the acknowledgement of the religious backing of such rights.)
    well i have said the [DOI] is subjective to the reader, meaning rights can come from god, your humanity, nature itself, it up to the reader and his own interpretation, but that rights do not come from man.

  9. #429
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    this shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

    i posted in original constitutional law...you challenged it

    then you hand me this.....no wonder you constantly fail!
    NO - you posted your opinion about what it meant. And that is based on willful delusion as not a single Supreme Court decision in 225 years supports your extremist, far right fringe view of the powers of the federal government. Not one single decision.

    Its just you out there on that far far far right extremist limb with no one else there who has ever had the responsibility of interpreting the Constitution and making the kind of inane statement that you have done here.
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    well i have said the [DOI] is subjective to the reader, meaning rights can come from god, your humanity, nature itself, it up to the reader and his own interpretation, but that rights do not come from man.
    You have clearly stated that you believe natural rights come from a Creator - a god or God and that is what the Declaration says.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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