View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

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  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
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Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #381
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    LOL. But only if the government allows it. Otherwise such things are rights that don't exist unless government says they do.
    it never ceases to amaze me at people who believe they are SUBJECTS, and not free people.


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  2. #382
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    that is the only argument they have...."they don't exist"

    when you ask them to prove it, you get more of the same.

    then they tell you to prove they exist, when that question should be directed at them, how can they prove they don't exist, since natural rights are part of our laws, principles, and of history of the world and america
    "They"...evidently I belong to some group now. News to me.

    This is absolutely provable. A natural right cannot be taken from you, nor can you give it up. So if the right to life couldn't be taken away, no one could be murderd, no one could die in a car accident, or indeed by any means other than their natural death. If the right to life couldn't be given up then no one could ever suicide; you would slide the blade across your wrist and perhaps bleed a bit, but not die.

    If the right to liberty couldn't be taken away then it would be impossible to jail anyone. You would close the cell door, they would assert their right to liberty and just walk right out of prison like Hancock.

    So, it's perfectly provable.

  3. #383
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Have a nice day Jerry. I made my argument for why natural rights exist. And you cannot make them go away by saying over and over that they do not.
    I cannot make go away something that was never here.

  4. #384
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    "They"...evidently I belong to some group now. News to me.

    This is absolutely provable. A natural right cannot be taken from you, nor can you give it up. So if the right to life couldn't be taken away, no one could be murderd, no one could die in a car accident, or indeed by any means other than their natural death. If the right to life couldn't be given up then no one could ever suicide; you would slide the blade across your wrist and perhaps bleed a bit, but not die.

    If the right to liberty couldn't be taken away then it would be impossible to jail anyone. You would close the cell doir, they would assert their right to liberty and just walk right out of prison like Hancock.

    So, it's perfectly provable.
    they as in people who argument and say natural rights don't exist...but do not produce any facts to prove their case...BUT their own personal words.

    natural rights mean they are natural to the body, they are not anything just made up.

    it is impossible to prevent the killing of another person......to secure rights means we use POSTIVE laws, to settle issues of rights violations


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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    it never ceases to amaze me at people who believe they are SUBJECTS, and not free people.
    If there is a government over you, you are not free.

  6. #386
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    it never ceases to amaze me at people who believe they are SUBJECTS, and not free people.
    Some seem to have been conditioned to see big government as necessary for their life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. They are so indoctrinated with that concept, it seems impossible for them to grasp the concept of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as natural rights the government was assigned to recognize and protect rather than create. For me and for you and for a number of others such concept is real and obvious and easy to understand. But apparently not so much for those entrenched in American leftism/progressivism/statism/political class or other ideologies like that.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    natural rights mean they are natural to the body, they are not anything just made up.
    That's only part of the definition. You're describing Human Rights, not Natural Rights. Human Rights, that is rights inherent of the individual simply for being human, do certainly exist. But Natural Rights, by definition, are inalienable. All Human Rights are alienable so therefore no Human Right is a Natural Right.

  8. #388
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If there is a government over you, you are not free.
    government is instituted to secure rights...that is it sole purpose....it is the uneducated among us, who believe government is here for other purposes.


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  9. #389
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    they as in people who argument and say natural rights don't exist...but do not produce any facts to prove their case...BUT their own personal words.
    The responsibility to prove something rests with those asserting the positive - in this case that natural rights do exist.

    You cannot always prove something claimed or believed does not exist since it involves proving a negative. For example - nobody can prove that there are not three inch monkeys made of blue flame who play a version of professional basketball underneath the surface of Uranus. But for one to assert the existence of such - they must offer proof of such a thing.
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    government is instituted to secure rights...that is it sole purpose....it is the uneducated among us, who believe government is here for other purposes.
    and apparently those who can read the Preamble to the Constitution.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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