View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

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  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
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Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #331
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    You seem to be confusing the existence of a right with the ability to exercise that right. A slave has an inalienable right to be free even when he's a slave.
    a right is essentially a just claim. and thus you are correct



  2. #332
    Mixed Government advocate
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If a right is unalienable, then you don't need a government to secure it.
    unalienable means they are not created by man, and therefore no person/ entry has a lien on your rights.

    to secure .... means to secure it from other people and governments

    IF MAN WORKED IN HARMONY WITH MAN, AND THERE WERE NEVER WARS, DISPUTES, ARGUMENTS ...BECAUSE MAN COULD WORK OUT HIS DIFFERENCES,......THEN WHY WOULD GOVERNMENT EVEN NEED TO EXIST?

    "if men were angels ,no government would necessary"-james madison

    rights of the people are not granted to the people, but recognized by the constitution, and they require only that government stand back while they are exercised.

    privileges of the government which are granted to the people, require government to take an action so you can exercise the privilege.

  3. #333
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    a right is essentially a just claim. and thus you are correct
    Except who decides what a "just claim" is? What is "just" is subjective.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #334
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    You seem to be confusing the existence of a right with the ability to exercise that right. A slave has an inalienable right to be free even when he's a slave.
    No confusion at all, they are one in the same. If you cannot excersize a right, you therefore do not have that right. A slave does not have an inalienable right to be free, and this is proven by the fact that he is not free.

    The very definition of "inalienable" means it cannot be taken away or given up, so when it's taken away or given up, it is therefore not inalienable.

    There is no inalienable right to life. There is no inalienable right to liberty. Those are civil rights under this social contract and must be defended with force or they are lost. Inalienable rights need no defending because they can't be taken away by any means.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-18-15 at 11:49 PM.

  5. #335
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Except who decides what a "just claim" is? What is "just" is subjective.
    ultimately you are going to say that all law is subjective



  6. #336
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    ultimately you are going to say that all law is subjective
    Look at gun laws across the states and argue they all follow some national standard.

  7. #337
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No confusion at all, they are one in the same. If you cannot excersize a right, you therefore do not have that right. A slave does not have an inalienable right to be free, and this is proven by the fact that he is not free.
    You're wrong. As a matter of principle, he does.
    Нава́льный 2018

  8. #338
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Look at gun laws across the states and argue they all follow some national standard.
    most of them are idiotic



  9. #339
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    ultimately you are going to say that all law is subjective
    No, laws are relative, when referring to the laws that govern individual groups of people. There are no laws that govern all people, at least not that we have had on this planet. Even if there were, the people would still have to agree (either directly or passively) to be governed by those laws or be unable to avoid being subjected to their authority.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #340
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No, laws are relative, when referring to the laws that govern individual groups of people. There are no laws that govern all people, at least not that we have had on this planet. Even if there were, the people would still have to agree (either directly or passively) to be governed by those laws or be unable to avoid being subjected to their authority.
    some laws apply to all people

    gravity, terminal ballistics and thermodynamics all come to mind



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