View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

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  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
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Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #311
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Right, they change with the civil structure as opposed to remaining consistent regardless of the civil structure. This makes life, liberty & property civil rights, not inalienable natural rights.
    incorrect....civil rights/ legal rights, are privileges in constitutional law...because they require an action from government.

    natural rights require no government action.

    AMENDMENT XIV
    Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.

    Note: Article I, section 2, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of the 14th amendment.

    Section 1.
    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property,<-------natural rights... without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-18-15 at 09:16 PM.


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  2. #312
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Nobody can limit rights that you don't have in the first place.
    again this is a silly and irrelevant comment. we reference natural rights because they were recognized by the founders in the Bill of rights. People like you pretend that the Bill of rights is extremely limited and the Bill of rights' prohibitions on the actions of the federal government are extremely narrow. We who do not worship the federal government understand that the founders believed in natural rights and intended to prevent the federal government from raping those natural rights. They did this two ways

    1) they NEVER EVER gave the federal government the power to interfere with those rights in the main body of the constitution and when some of the founders were worried about dishonest politicians in the future pretending that the federal government had any power not specifically denied it,

    2) they created the Bill of rights which was a negative restriction and restatement of that fact

    You can pretend all you want that we don't have those right but the Bill of Rights proves you are incorrect.

    so does the fact that the federal government was never properly delegated the power to so interfere with them
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  3. #313
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you at in the pacific ocean on a ship hundreds of miles from other land, and a island were to appear out of nowhere, and you step ashore on it and no one is there but you, can you claim it as your property....... of course you can


    ......
    You can claim it as such, just as someone could claim a car that just happened to be sitting in a parking spot with the keys in it, but that doesn't mean you own it unless someone else or yourself are able to defend that property as yours. For most people, who live in societies, those societies recognize certain boundaries of ownership. But that is because, as a collective, the people in those societies recognize the ownership rights. It really is a might makes "rights" thing in that case because if you and/or those who actually do accept your ownership of that property cannot defend it, then it can easily become the other person's if they are strong enough to defeat you.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #314
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    You have the right to property that you ethically or legally acquired. A pretty simple concept actually.
    No, actually it isn't. Ethics are subjective and legality is relative to the place you live and who you view as having authority over you. It is completely possible (no matter how improbable) that we could have aliens come to our planet tomorrow and claim ownership of the entire world, and every living thing on it, including us. Who gets to tell them no? Us? Well what if we are unable to defend "our" planet? What if it turns out that their species terraformed our planet billions of years ago and they really did technically own it?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #315
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You can claim it as such, just as someone could claim a car that just happened to be sitting in a parking spot with the keys in it, but that doesn't mean you own it unless someone else or yourself are able to defend that property as yours. For most people, who live in societies, those societies recognize certain boundaries of ownership. But that is because, as a collective, the people in those societies recognize the ownership rights. It really is a might makes "rights" thing in that case because if you and/or those who actually do accept your ownership of that property cannot defend it, then it can easily become the other person's if they are strong enough to defeat you.
    sorry that not even the same.

    your car is in among property, in society.

    my island is not part of either, so your example is bad.


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  6. #316
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    sorry that not even the same.

    your car is in among property, in society.

    my island is not part of either, so your example is bad.
    Your car is recognized as your property for only one of two reasons. Either a) society recognizes it as such and is willing to defend that recognition for you or b) you are capable of preventing anyone who would otherwise want to claim the car/use the car from doing so. And the second one presupposes that either society doesn't concern itself with such issues or you are even capable enough to prevent society from relieving you of ownership to that car.

    The island could already be claimed by someone else. You simply don't know. And someone else could come along and challenge your claim to the island. If your claim isn't recognized by anyone else, then how would anyone know that you claimed ownership of the island?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #317
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Sure, you can claim the moon. Can you get yourself to the moon though?
    Sure, if I had enough money/resources to build a rocket to take me there. But do I have to do so to have ownership of something? You don't have to physically possess something to claim ownership of it.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #318
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Your car is recognized as your property for only one of two reasons. Either a) society recognizes it as such and is willing to defend that recognition for you or b) you are capable of preventing anyone who would otherwise want to claim the car/use the car from doing so. And the second one presupposes that either society doesn't concern itself with such issues or you are even capable enough to prevent society from relieving you of ownership to that car.
    you need to stick with the island not your car.



    if i find an island and it is not in the jurisdiction of any nation, and no person has made claim to it.......it is mine.


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  9. #319
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you need to stick with the island not your car.

    if i find an island and it is not in the jurisdiction of any nation, and no person has made claim to it.......it is mine.
    Says who? You? How long do you maintain "ownership" of that island?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #320
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Says who? You? How long do you maintain "ownership" of that island?
    i do, and if i am an american and and my life is threaten, it is the duty of the u.s.federal government to protect me.

    just like they protect americans on foreign soil or at sea.
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-18-15 at 09:55 PM.


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