View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

Voters
87. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
Page 3 of 100 FirstFirst 123451353 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 994

Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #21
    Professor
    PIPEWRENCH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    2,422

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Just because evil people and evil governments can take away or restrict natural rights does not mean they do not exist.

  2. #22
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    13,278
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    There is a logical step between everything on earth wanting things and everything on earth being entitled to things.
    Entitlement is a manmade concept and is allowed or authorized by human beings. Entitlement requires contribution and/or participation from others.

    Natural rights require no contribution or participation by anybody. All that is necessary for natural rights to be respected is non interference by others.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  3. #23
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:07 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,514

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by PIPEWRENCH View Post
    Just because evil people and evil governments can take away or restrict natural rights does not mean they do not exist.
    But if a right depends upon either your own strength or the sufferance of others in what sense can it be called a right? Moral ideals perhaps, but a right? I just don't see that.

  4. #24
    Undisclosed
    Unrepresented's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    San Diego
    Last Seen
    06-12-16 @ 07:05 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,230

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by PIPEWRENCH View Post
    Just because evil people and evil governments can take away or restrict natural rights does not mean they do not exist.
    If you can take something away, it's not very "inalienable."
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

  5. #25
    Temp Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 03:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    53,657

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Ask an actual slave if he disagrees with that sentiment.
    Tell me, if no one ever enslaved them what would they be doing more than likely? Also, how do you control the body of another human being?

  6. #26
    Temp Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 03:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    53,657

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Slaves are slaves because the collective is more powerful than the individual. Your ownership is constantly up for auction.
    My ownership can't be bought or sold. The entire concept of owning another human being is flawed. You can force someone into labor for you, but you can't own them like you can a car or piece of land.

  7. #27
    Sage
    Glen Contrarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Bernie to the left of me, Hillary to the right, here I am...
    Last Seen
    12-27-16 @ 05:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    14,748

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Entitlement is a manmade concept and is allowed or authorized by human beings. Entitlement requires contribution and/or participation from others.

    Natural rights require no contribution or participation by anybody. All that is necessary for natural rights to be respected is non interference by others.
    And your entire post is absolutely correct. But note the use of the word "correct" - I used it because if it weren't for entitlements and certain legal obligations to help others, life would suck indeed.

    For instance, there's the Law of the Sea: if you know of someone in distress, if you are able to do so without placing yourself and your crew in real danger, you are legally required to go save them.

    So it is with police and doctors and so many professions - if one sees a problem, one must do something about it. If our society was such that there was no legal, moral, or social obligation to respond and help, again, life would suck indeed. And what most conservatives don't seem to get is that things like welfare, Medicaid, and so on are in reality an extension of the aforementioned obligations to help those in need or distress. To whom much is given, much is expected - that is and has for many generations described what we do.

    But if someone doesn't want to live where there's any such legal, moral, or social obligation to help, I encourage them to all go and found their own little nation and see how that works out....
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  8. #28
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:03 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    41,277

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Folks, we're not talking about how the strong can abuse the weak.


    This is known, just as it is known that the violent can murder the pacifistic, and the sneaky can steal from the careless. That doesn't make these things right, nor does simple might make right.


    Natural rights is about what rights human beings ought to have and which ought to be respected by all because our very nature, needs and drives make them important.


    The right to life: Humans, like all other living things, strive to continue to exist. Since that's something virtually all of us want and need, it is something we should respect for others so they will return that respect to us. A human life should not be taken without very compelling reason.

    As all living things defend themselves as best they are able from attack, so do humans... thus the right to self-defense against unjust attack ought to be considered a natural right, as is the common means to that defense.


    No sane person wants their body violated by unwanted forceful sexual acts perpetrated on their person, so again this should be respected as a natural right.


    The right to property can get a bit more complex and nuanced, but it is not too much of a stretch to say that where a person has plowed and planted, they should have a right to reap and keep the produce of their labor. The details can be hashed out, but the general principle is there even in primitive cultures... if I made the bow, it is my bow unless I give or trade it to another.


    Some people try to make out that it isn't a "natural right" if it can be taken away. BS. Natural rights are not scientific laws, but rather a recognition that the very nature of humanity implies that certain rights of each person ought to be respected and not infringed upon... particularly the Big Three, Life Liberty and Pursuit of happiness, from which the others derive.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  9. #29
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    13,278
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    If you can take something away, it's not very "inalienable."
    The inalienable means that it cannot be justly or ethically touched or interfered with or violated by government or others. That does not mean that the government or others WON'T take it away or interfere with it or violate it, but only that it is unjust and unethical and wrong to do so. The concept of the U.S. central government was that the people gave it the responsibility to recognize and protect the unalienable rights of the people, among which were life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness or, as expressed in the Preamble, 'the blessings of liberty'. The government did not give the people such rights. The people already had them. The government was assigned the responsibility to make sure the people would not have those rights infringed.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  10. #30
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 09:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    This topic seems to have popped up in a few threads recently so I thought I'd put this together. Put simply do you believe in the concept of natural rights? That is to say rights that are "not contingent upon the laws, customs, or beliefs of any particular culture or government, and therefore universal and inalienable".

    Personally I don't. I think that Hobbes had it right when he intimated that the only 'natural right' that a human being possesses is the right to strive for their own survival. Everything else exists only at the sufferance of your own strength or the kindness of others. It is part of what makes civilization so essential and so valuable, because by creating a society we attempt to lift ourselves out of that war of all against all. This allows for freedom of speech, property rights, press freedoms, freedom of worship, etc. Absent organized society these 'rights' would be purely theoretical.
    No. Rights are what you can force.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

Page 3 of 100 FirstFirst 123451353 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •