View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

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  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
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Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #241
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I believe in the right to fight for 'self-ownership' in the context of your own survival.
    It is the only right I can think of that cant be taken away from you.
    The 'will to live' or 'will to survive' is what I'm getting at. Other than that everything is dependent upon your own strength and the intentions of others.


    What rights does a dead person have?

  2. #242
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    What rights does a dead person have?
    The right to remain silent!!

  3. #243
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Right, and that means it's not a natural right.
    Not at all, because choosing not to engage in a right because of potential deterrents does not make said right inalienable.

  4. #244
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by PIPEWRENCH View Post
    Just because evil people and evil governments can take away or restrict natural rights does not mean they do not exist.


    What good are they to people who are dead and buried because they tried to use them?

  5. #245
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Nature does not grant people rights, it grants people abilities. People are arguing that because nature grants me the ability to breathe, eat, sleep, think, poop, etc that I have a right too. Nature grants me the ability to kill everyone and everything, that does not make it my right.
    If I get stung in the neck by a bee, and I lose my ability to breathe, is the bee taking away my right to breathe or just the ability?

  6. #246
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the fact that Jefferson owned 100 slaves in no way proves or even insinuates he believed that white men like him did NOT have natural rights
    Jefferson did not claim that only white men had natural rights. He said that ALL MEN had them.

    So your point fails completely as its based on a totally false premise.

    BTW he didn't' write the 2nd Amendment or the bill of rights so all this silly diversion over slavery and the DOI is dilatory nonsense
    I realize that the issue of the Second Amendment is your pet issue and you are obsessed with it. However, this is NOT a gun thread nor a discussion about rights associated with guns.

    The fact is that the Constitution is a very practical document and it does NOT contain the very clear statement about natural rights that the Declaration contains. Thus, any intelligent discussion about the Founders and natural rights has to center on their clearest statement which is the Declaration - not the Constitution.
    Last edited by haymarket; 05-18-15 at 12:51 PM.
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  7. #247
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Jefferson did not claim that only white men had natural rights. He said that ALL MEN had them.

    So your point fails completely as its based on a totally false premise.



    I realize that the issue of the Second Amendment is your pet issue and you are obsessed with it. However, this is NOT a gun thread nor a discussion about rights associated with guns.

    The fact is that the Constitution is a very practical document and it does NOT contain the very clear statement about natural rights that the Declaration contains. Thus, any intelligent discussion about the Founders and natural rights has to center on their clearest statement which is the Declaration - not the Constitution.
    complete nonsense. so it is your position that bill of rights was not intended to recognize and guarantee natural rights based on what the Declaration of Independence said versus what those who signed the DOI believed?
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

  8. #248
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    complete nonsense. so it is your position that bill of rights was not intended to recognize and guarantee natural rights based on what the Declaration of Independence said versus what those who signed the DOI believed?
    Quite right. The dictionary definition of 'unalienable' is that which cannot be taken away or transferred to anybody else. One example would be that nobody can take away my capacity to love, nor can I give that capacity to anybody else. Nobody can take away my desire or appreciation for liberty nor can I give that to anybody else. The stronger, more powerful, etc. can deny me the ability to speak or demonstrate or exercise such rights openly and with impunity but cannot take them away. The purpose of the Constitution was to recognize and protect such rights to prevent the stronger, more powerful, whether in government or not, to interfere with anybody's liberty to exercise his/her unalienable rights so long as he/she infringed on nobody else's rights.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  9. #249
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Quite right. The dictionary definition of 'unalienable' is that which cannot be taken away or transferred to anybody else. One example would be that nobody can take away my capacity to love, nor can I give that capacity to anybody else. Nobody can take away my desire or appreciation for liberty nor can I give that to anybody else. The stronger, more powerful, etc. can deny me the ability to speak or demonstrate or exercise such rights openly and with impunity but cannot take them away. The purpose of the Constitution was to recognize and protect such rights to prevent the stronger, more powerful, whether in government or not, to interfere with anybody's liberty to exercise his/her unalienable rights so long as he/she infringed on nobody else's rights.
    I just find it amazing that some pretend that the bill of rights was NOT INTENDED to guarantee such natural rights because the people who SIGNED (not the people who wrote the Bill of rights) the DECLARATION of INDEPENDENCE supposedly did not actually believe what the DOI said

    talk about a specious jump and a bogus attempt to limit what our constitutional rights are
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

  10. #250
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Quite right. The dictionary definition of 'unalienable' is that which cannot be taken away or transferred to anybody else. One example would be that nobody can take away my capacity to love, nor can I give that capacity to anybody else. Nobody can take away my desire or appreciation for liberty nor can I give that to anybody else. The stronger, more powerful, etc. can deny me the ability to speak or demonstrate or exercise such rights openly and with impunity but cannot take them away. The purpose of the Constitution was to recognize and protect such rights to prevent the stronger, more powerful, whether in government or not, to interfere with anybody's liberty to exercise his/her unalienable rights so long as he/she infringed on nobody else's rights.
    Even by your definition, your inalienable rights are only inalienable in the US, where they are protected by government. In any other country they are not inalienable at all.

    There are 154 constitutions in the world. Each of them specify different rights that belong to the people. You have no right to bear arms in England, nor in Australia, natural or otherwise. Not only is the right not 'inalienable', it doesn't exist full stop. If these rights are natural, why are they dependent on national lines which are clearly artificial?
    "Education is the only thing you can do that will change society. Everything else is just a band-aid." - Jacqueline de Chollet
    "Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their choice are prepared to choose wisely. The real safeguard of democracy, therefore, is education" - FDR

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