View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

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  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
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Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #991
    Mixed Government advocate
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Black's law 2nd

    unwritten law

    http://blacks.worldfreemansociety.org/2/U/u1188.jpg

    Webster1828 dictionary

    unwritten law

    Websters Dictionary 1828 - Online Edition

    Bouvier's Law Dictionary and Concise Encyclopedia, Volume 3

    unwritten law

    https://books.google.com/books?
    id=sIWPAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA3377&lpg=PA3377&dq=John+Bouvi er+dictionary+for+unwritten+law&source=bl&ots=RdBJ KXEtCe&sig=uE55VrT7s6mQP69BUZxNI2gEj3Q&hl=en&sa=X& ei=FaloVef5G8LHsQSUnoAg&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage& q=John%20Bouvier%20dictionary%20for%20unwritten%20 law&f=false

  2. #992
    Sage

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Ummm, how do you think property is maintained if not through force? Seriously, how old are you?
    That's why we enact civil government. To enhance and enforce those natural rights. I read this in civics class in grade school:

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed....
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I'm glad you finally realize that human beings can become property.
    He wrote "legally speaking." There's a difference between legal rights and natural rights.
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  3. #993
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Nope, I believe people can be made into property through force. Before that, they are simply free individuals. Once force is employed, and they submit, they cease to be free individuals and become property. Is this REALLY hard for you to get?
    We get that people can be forced into slavery. But force does not make right. I addressed the illogical nature of that contention in Post #835.
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  4. #994
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You're made into a slave through force. The same way that land is made into property, the same way that dogs are made into property, the same way in which anything else is made into property. It is made into property through force.
    Practically or legally speaking in a societal context that's true. Morally or ethically, never as regards to people.

    Land is there for the common good. It's only by convention that we give people a perpetual property interest in land, and that's always provisional.

    Animals flunk every test I can imagine when it comes to rights. Might makes right? There isn't an animal on this planet that can outrun a bullet or 00 buckshot. Duty? Reciprocity? The only duty animals seem to have is to invade my trash and crap on my grass, and since they can't read the Bible they don't know they're supposed to "Do unto others.... " Speaking of the Bible, their rights don't get much support in Genesis. Do they "own" themselves? Does a tree own itself? How about a snail? I don't see how something can own itself if it has no idea what ownership is.

    I think the best answer regarding animal rights I got from a coworker today. I asked him, "Do animals have rights?" He said, "They have a right to be food and pets. But they should be treated humanely." I said, "Why is that?" "Because we're human," he replied. So what human trait is it that causes humans to believe it's wrong to torment animals? The only thing I can think of is compassion. It's certainly not because we're following the Golden Rule here. A bear will chew your ass up if given an opportunity. It's because we have traits that make us human, like compassion, that we extend legal rights to animals to not be mistreated. But in and of themselves they have no rights.

    As regards to a thing, I assume a property interest in it when I exert labor into it or create it. No one has a right to steal it from me.
    Last edited by Ahlevah; 05-30-15 at 12:15 AM.
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