View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

Voters
87. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
Page 10 of 100 FirstFirst ... 891011122060 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 994

Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #91
    free market communist
    Gardener's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    09-30-17 @ 11:27 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    26,661

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    You're onto something here. One question we need to ask first is, "What is a society?" Does a family qualify as a society? How about an extended family of aunts, uncles, cousins, etc? Is a "tribe" then a form of society? Is it natural? Are humans naturally social creatures, or do they tend to be independent and solitary? Do people, especially those who are related, feel a natural affinity towards one another? Because if they do, this affinity can form the basis for the concept of a right.
    I would answer yes to all of your questions. We are inherently a social animal as we are slow footed, soft bodied things lacking natural armament or defense. We have thin skin, useless claws, teeth designed for grinding rather than ripping, and are non toxic to other animals. Our success as a species is entirely dependent on our ability to work as a group. As such, our survival is predicated upon various principles that guide our behavior. These principles can be called "rights" if one wishes, and they now exist in written form in addition to natural assumptions, but I find it silly and sophomoric when people argue that there are none. It is just mental masturbation that acts as if humans are an entirely different species than what they actually are.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  2. #92
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:46 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    87,889

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Far too many today either never learned or they have forgotten that the evolution of the theory of natural rights came about as a way to get away from the divine right of kings. People wanted to neutralize and go beyond the power of the king and had to find some groundwork to lay to make it possible and natural rights theory was the result. It was merely a construct to bridge mankind to self rule of the people. As such, it served a very useful purpose several centuries ago but we have advanced far beyond the need for such mythology.

    Rights are hard fought for and had won. They involve blood and lives and lots and lots of hard work and sacrifice. It demeans the very idea of rights to pretend that we have them because mythical gods in the sky gave us our rights like so much Halloween candy being dispensed to costumed toddlers in October. Rights come about from a very simple process: people want a certain behavior as a right and they then exert enough power or influence of force upon government to get that behavior protected as a right.

    People can believe anything they want to believe and religion and faith prove that in spades. But reality dictates that rights do not come from gods racing their glorious chariots across the heavens and feeling generous to us who worship them.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  3. #93
    Sage
    Ahlevah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Flyoverland
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,735

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    These principles can be called "rights" if one wishes, and they now exist in written form in addition to natural assumptions, but I find it silly and sophomoric when people argue that there are none. It is just mental masturbation that acts as if humans are an entirely different species than what they actually are.
    Agreed. People who readily accept a concept that represents a physical or empirical thing can't compute when the thing in nature can't be quantified, such as a feeling or emotion.
    Нава́льный 2018

  4. #94
    Sage
    Ahlevah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Flyoverland
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,735

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Far too many today either never learned or they have forgotten that the evolution of the theory of natural rights came about as a way to get away from the divine right of kings. People wanted to neutralize and go beyond the power of the king and had to find some groundwork to lay to make it possible and natural rights theory was the result. It was merely a construct to bridge mankind to self rule of the people. As such, it served a very useful purpose several centuries ago but we have advanced far beyond the need for such mythology.
    Don't be naive. It wasn't that long ago that South Africa ended apartheid and freed Nelson Mandela. If one follows your line of reasoning, there was nothing wrong with apartheid because the white people in power in that society said so.
    Нава́льный 2018

  5. #95
    Sage
    Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    US
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:58 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    5,984

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Personally I don't. I think that Hobbes had it right when he intimated that the only 'natural right' that a human being possesses is the right to strive for their own survival. Everything else exists only at the sufferance of your own strength or the kindness of others.
    That is not at all Hobbes' position. In his view, there is no "only" - there is no limitation at all on natural rights. In his view, you have the "right to every thing, even to one anothers body". In Hobbes' view, natural rights are limitless.

    If you don't believe in natural rights, then you don't at all agree with Hobbes.

  6. #96
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:46 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    87,889

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Don't be naive. It wasn't that long ago that South Africa ended apartheid and freed Nelson Mandela. If one follows your line of reasoning, there was nothing wrong with apartheid because the white people in power in that society said so.
    The introduction of RIGHT and WRONG in terms of evaluative judgments was NOT part of my explanation. It is entirely of your own introduction.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #97
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 10:08 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    James Otis The Rights of the British Colonies

    1763

    Every British Subject born on the continent of America, or in any other of the British dominions, is by the law of God and nature, by the common law, and by act of parliament, (exclusive of all charters from the crown) entitled to all the natural, essential, inherent and inseparable rights of our fellow subjects in Great- Britain......


    The end of government being the good of mankind, points out its great duties: It is above all things to provide for the security, the quiet, and happy enjoyment of life, liberty, and property. There is no one act which a government can have a right to make, that does not tend to the advancement of the security, tranquility and prosperity of the people.


    The Rights of the Colonists

    November 20, 1772

    Among the natural rights of the Colonists are these: First, a right to life; Secondly, to liberty; Thirdly, to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can. These are evident branches of, rather than deductions from, the duty of self-preservation, commonly called the first law of nature.

    All men have a right to remain in a state of nature as long as they please; and in case of intolerable oppression, civil or religious, to leave the society they belong to, and enter into another.

    When men enter into society, it is by voluntary consent; and they have a right to demand and insist upon the performance of such conditions and previous limitations as form an equitable original compact.

    Every natural right not expressly given up, or, from the nature of a social compact, necessarily ceded, remains.

    All positive and civil laws should conform, as far as possible, to the law of natural reason and equity.


    The Declaration Independence of the thirteen united States of America July 1776

    When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

    Amendment V


    December 1791

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


    AMENDMENT XIV

    Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.

    Note: Article I, section 2, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of the 14th amendment.

    Section 1.
    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-17-15 at 12:09 PM.

  8. #98
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 10:08 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Don't be naive. It wasn't that long ago that South Africa ended apartheid and freed Nelson Mandela. If one follows your line of reasoning, there was nothing wrong with apartheid because the white people in power in that society said so.
    you see it too in his reasoning don't you...

  9. #99
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,316

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    The right to get plugged in the brain with a a bullet renders the concept of a right meaningless. I mean, if society said "2 + 2 = 6. Why? Because we ****ing said so" would that make it true?
    Exactly where did you get the "right to get plugged in the brain" from? You're just pulling this stuff out of your ass and thinking people are going to take you seriously? Think again.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  10. #100
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:46 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    87,889

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    James Otis The Rights of the British Colonies

    1763

    Every British Subject born on the continent of America, or in any other of the British dominions, is by the law of God and nature, by the common law, and by act of parliament, (exclusive of all charters from the crown) entitled to all the natural, essential, inherent and inseparable rights of our fellow subjects in Great- Britain......


    The end of government being the good of mankind, points out its great duties: It is above all things to provide for the security, the quiet, and happy enjoyment of life, liberty, and property. There is no one act which a government can have a right to make, that does not tend to the advancement of the security, tranquility and prosperity of the people.


    The Rights of the Colonists

    November 20, 1772

    Among the natural rights of the Colonists are these: First, a right to life; Secondly, to liberty; Thirdly, to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can. These are evident branches of, rather than deductions from, the duty of self-preservation, commonly called the first law of nature.

    All men have a right to remain in a state of nature as long as they please; and in case of intolerable oppression, civil or religious, to leave the society they belong to, and enter into another.

    When men enter into society, it is by voluntary consent; and they have a right to demand and insist upon the performance of such conditions and previous limitations as form an equitable original compact.

    Every natural right not expressly given up, or, from the nature of a social compact, necessarily ceded, remains.

    All positive and civil laws should conform, as far as possible, to the law of natural reason and equity.


    The Declaration Independence of the thirteen united States of America July 1776

    When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

    Amendment V


    December 1791

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


    AMENDMENT XIV

    Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.

    Note: Article I, section 2, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of the 14th amendment.

    Section 1.
    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    Not one thing in that quote dump negates the reality that a belief in natural rights is just that - an unprovable belief held by a believer because they want to believe it.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

Page 10 of 100 FirstFirst ... 891011122060 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •