View Poll Results: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement/.

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  • For

    18 32.73%
  • Against

    34 61.82%
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    3 5.45%
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Thread: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

  1. #21
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    I am for all free trade agreements - providing they are actually making trade freer.

    And I am totally against protectionism.
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  2. #22
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Thats not about immigration.....
    Oh yes. You just argued that we ought to adopt a protectionist policy whose intent is to protect and keep high American wages. So your position on immigration is rather pertinent.

    Because my bet is that I can go find where you are in favor of immigration policy that has precisely the result you would decry from the TPP, that of driving down blue-collar wages.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

  3. #23
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Unfortunately this isn't just about free trade.

    Why are so many people against the TPP?

    One of the major issues with the TPP is its effect on Freedom of Speech. Remember how everyone was concerned about the potential ramifications of SOPA and PIPA back when the US government was trying to crack down on “internet piracy”? Well, multiply that times a billion and then don’t run it through Congress, and you have, in a nutshell, the future effects of the TPP on the internet.

    Under the guise of protecting intellectual copyrights, if the TPP goes through, the internet will change dramatically. It could turn internet service providers into watchdogs, and threaten our ability to communicate unfettered on blogs, forums, websites and social media platforms.

    ISPs will be forced to monitor the content of their customers (without warrants) because it is they who will face huge liability if copyrights are “infringed” upon.

    “Fair Use” policies will be restricted, existing copyrights will be greatly lengthened, and adopt criminal sanctions against those who infringe on copyrights, even without monetary motivations.

    Our own Constitutional checks and balances will no longer apply. There will be no right to privacy and no due process. Webpages can be taken down based on only a complaint – proof will not be required. Innocent until proven guilty will not apply.


    The TPP for Dummies | The Daily Sheeple

    Trans-Pacific Partnership Takes Legal Authority Away from Domestic Courts

    Trans-Pacific Partnership Takes Legal Authority Away from Domestic Courts
    Copyright protection and the like is a huge boon for the American economy. It's not as if we are making our money creating cheap knock-offs of Indonesian inventions. Spare me the conspiraceh's.
    Last edited by cpwill; 05-11-15 at 09:06 PM.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

  4. #24
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    : Copyright protection and the like is a huge boon for the American economy. It's not as if we are making our money creating cheap knock-offs of Indonesian inventions. Spare me the conspiraceh's.
    This isn't conspiracy.
    You thinking it is, is nonsense.
    This has far greater reach than simply free trade.

    I am sorry you do not understand that.

    And undermining national sovereignty is nothing to sneeze at.
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  5. #25
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    : Copyright protection and the like is a huge boon for the American economy. It's not as if we are making our money creating cheap knock-offs of Indonesian inventions. Spare me the conspiraceh's.
    Effective copyright is a boon for the American economy, what we have now is not effective copyright and it will only be made worse by the TPP. Instead of trying to crackdown on movie pirates maybe focus should be shifted to the 100s of billions of dollars lost due to stolen intellectual property by Chinese companies mainly corporate espionage or corruption.

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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    Effective copyright is a boon for the American economy, what we have now is not effective copyright and it will only be made worse by the TPP. Instead of trying to crackdown on movie pirates maybe focus should be shifted to the 100s of billions of dollars lost due to stolen intellectual property by Chinese companies mainly corporate espionage or corruption.
    China is not party to the deal and thus can't be prosecuted under it - instead you have to go to the WTO. The portions of Asia that are party to it, however, will become limited and less able to commit intellectual theft against the US. The patent protections in the TPP are there because we insisted upon them, because they are good for US businesses, besides being a good Rule of Law issue in and of themselves.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

  7. #27
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Oh yes. You just argued that we ought to adopt a protectionist policy whose intent is to protect and keep high American wages. So your position on immigration is rather pertinent.

    Because my bet is that I can go find where you are in favor of immigration policy that has precisely the result you would decry from the TPP, that of driving down blue-collar wages.
    You mean how something like NAFTA lead to a direct increase in illegal immigration? Something you can find like right here on my profile: http://www.debatepolitics.com/blogs/...migration.html
    Just a democratic-socialist in the heartland of America.CHECK OUT MY TUMBLR(BLOG)HERE "Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression, and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

  8. #28
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    This isn't conspiracy.
    No, no no, it's just a secretive grand design to undermine US sovereignty and put all of your blogs at risk of being censored by foreign powers

    You thinking it is, is nonsense.
    The arguments you put forth were nonsense. If you are committing intellectual theft, then you should get caught.

    This has far greater reach than simply free trade.
    That is 100% correct. The TPP is also fantastic foreign policy and geopolitics (not the same thing). By creating a free-trade atmosphere with much of Asia, the US can mitigate and roll back much of the economic exclusivity that China has been trying to enforce in the same region. We not only benefit from increased trade, but we help to protect smaller democracies from encroachment by an aggressive autocratic nature and we reduce the future chances that a forced alliance restricts our abilities to access key markets and shipping lanes. There is a good reason why administrations that feature everyone from Dick Cheney to Samantha Powers favored and pushed the TPP, and it's because it is excellent policy.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

  9. #29
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    You mean how something like NAFTA lead to a direct increase in illegal immigration?
    Nope. I asked what your preferred immigration policy was. Are you in favor of the DREAMers? Amnesty? Where do you stand on actually securing our border? Because large scale immigration of low-skill workers has the exact same effect you are decrying from the TPP.


    Which you probably didn't stop to think about until now. Which is probably why you are trying to dodge the question.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

  10. #30
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    China is not party to the deal and thus can't be prosecuted under it - instead you have to go to the WTO. The portions of Asia that are party to it, however, will become limited and less able to commit intellectual theft against the US. The patent protections in the TPP are there because we insisted upon them, because they are good for US businesses, besides being a good Rule of Law issue in and of themselves.
    They are good for American businesses, but bad for the American people and innovation.

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