View Poll Results: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement/.

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  • For

    18 32.73%
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    34 61.82%
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    3 5.45%
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Thread: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

  1. #191
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good morning, donsutherland1.

    Thank you for posting that link! It looks like there are a lot of cross-currents and competing interests in place here, and I too wonder why the WTO isn't involved, instead of what seems to be taking place. It will be interesting to watch how all this plays out! China has over a billion cell-phone users, as an example, so they aren't a rinky-dink little player on the world stage, and I can't think they would appreciate efforts to marginalize them - we wouldn't, and they are as important on the world stage as we are! If they decide to join in on this agreement, would, or could, they be told "no," as South Korea apparently was for some reason, without financial repercussions, mainly to our country, since it appears we are taking the lead on this? Puzzling....
    A combination of factors is probably responsible including:

    1. The TPP will likely be easier to conclude than the larger Doha round, as the differences between developed and developing countries has remained quite large in the Doha Round.
    2. The TPP would provide concrete substance that the U.S. is going to remain an integral player in Asia.
    3. The TPP, at least from what has been reported, will likely be an open architecture agreement, meaning that China and other countries could join at some later date.

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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    I'm all for free trade. The way I look at it is two parties do not trade unless both parties benefit so why limit freedom. What the U.S. needs to do is to change the tax code to lower the cost on job creation, preferably down to zero.

  3. #193
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    My indifference is unlimited.
    As is your lack of knowledge, supporting a thing that you haven't even seen, I'm laughing a little, pardon me.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  4. #194
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    A combination of factors is probably responsible including:

    1. The TPP will likely be easier to conclude than the larger Doha round, as the differences between developed and developing countries has remained quite large in the Doha Round.
    2. The TPP would provide concrete substance that the U.S. is going to remain an integral player in Asia.
    3. The TPP, at least from what has been reported, will likely be an open architecture agreement, meaning that China and other countries could join at some later date.
    All those things could be true, you don't know though. But even if they are, that doesn't necessitate any benefits to the American work force.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    As is your lack of knowledge, supporting a thing that you haven't even seen, I'm laughing a little, pardon me.
    I support the principle; that's enough. Draft treaties are always confidential; that helps all negotiators. Were you unaware of that?
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    All those things could be true, you don't know though. But even if they are, that doesn't necessitate any benefits to the American work force.
    I was just explaining why the U.S. has placed emphasis on the TPP as opposed to relying strictly on the Doha Round. The actual terms of the agreement will determine the trade-offs. Almost certainly, some companies and industries will be worse off, while others will be better off. But if the agreement is well-crafted, the mutual benefits to the various parties should exceed the costs; effective trade liberalization deals leverage the countries' comparative advantages leading to net overall benefits. Finally, at least IMO, there should be some kind of approach e.g., financing for training, etc., to mitigate the transition for adversely-impacted workers.

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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/WarrenReport.pdf

    seems Elizabeth Warren is taking it to Obama. in the cited report, she shows that Obama, like dubya and clinton, is not enforcing the very provisions of the present free trade agreements that the president insists should not alarm US labor

    The promises that the Obama Administration
    is making about the TPP are not new. For over two
    decades, American Presidents from both political
    parties have promised that the trade agreements
    negotiated by their Administration would put
    American workers first. From NAFTA and CAFTA
    to the recent deals with Peru, Colombia, Panama and
    South Korea, proponents of these trade agreements
    have – again, and again, and again - made nearly
    identical promises.
    ... U.S. agencies reported, and GAO
    found, persistent challenges to labor
    rights, such as limited enforcement
    capacity, the use of subcontracting
    to avoid direct employment, and,
    in Colombia and Guatemala,
    violence against union leaders.
    ... The United States does not enforce the labor
    protections in its trade agreements.
    ... The U.S. pursues very few enforcement actions.
    ... Widespread labor-related human rights
    violations.
    ... Failure to curb even the worst abuses. ... Guatemala was named
    “the most dangerous country in the world for
    trade unionists” five years after entering a trade
    agreement with the U.S. In Colombia, despite
    the existence of a special “Labor Action Plan”
    put in place to address long-standing problems
    and secure passage of the Colombia FTA, 105
    union activists have been murdered and 1,337
    death threats have been issued since the Labor
    Action Plan was finalized four years ago. ...
    ok Obama, your turn. tell us what Liz got wrong
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    It's a shame the White House has become an adult day care center. Someone obviously missed their shift this morning. ~ Sen. Corker

  8. #198
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I was just explaining why the U.S. has placed emphasis on the TPP as opposed to relying strictly on the Doha Round. The actual terms of the agreement will determine the trade-offs. Almost certainly, some companies and industries will be worse off, while others will be better off. But if the agreement is well-crafted, the mutual benefits to the various parties should exceed the costs; effective trade liberalization deals leverage the countries' comparative advantages leading to net overall benefits. Finally, at least IMO, there should be some kind of approach e.g., financing for training, etc., to mitigate the transition for adversely-impacted workers.
    Well that's the point. It's just hard for me to believe that it will be, given that those negotiators, which compose the 28 committees, are 85% corporate executives and industry lobbyists. That it's supported largely by the Republican Party, the Chamber of Commerce and big business, while it's opposed by labor unions, church's, environmental advocacy groups and largely, the Democratic Party. I'm sorry, but there's just really something troubling about that.
    Last edited by Montecresto; 05-18-15 at 09:47 PM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  9. #199
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Even if a member of Congress were to hunker down and pore over a draft trade agreement hundreds of pages long, filled with technical jargon and confusing cross-references –- what good would it do? Just sitting down and reading the agreement isn’t going to make its content sink in.

    For any senator who wants to study the draft TPP language, it has been made available in the basement of the Capitol, inside a secured, soundproof room. There, lawmakers surrender their cellphones and other mobile devices and sit under the watchful gaze of an official from the U.S. Trade Representative’s office while they peruse the pages. Any notes taken inside the room must be left in the room.

    Only aides with high-level security clearances can accompany lawmakers. Members of Congress can’t ask outside industry experts or lawyers to analyze the language. They can’t talk to the public about what they read. And Brown says there’s no computer inside the secret room to look something up when there’s confusion. You just consult the USTR official.

    http://www.truthdig.com/eartothegrou...f_tpp_20150514

    This is utter bull**** that only morons, or people who have some personal advantage by it, would support. Sorry if that offends the sensitivities of any.
    Last edited by Montecresto; 05-18-15 at 09:48 PM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  10. #200
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Well that's the point. It's just hard for me to believe that it will be given that those negotiators, which compose the 28 committees, are 85% corporate executives and industry lobbyists. That it's supported largely by the Republican Party, the Chamber of Commerce and big business, while it's opposed by labor unions, church's, environmental advocacy groups and largely, the Democratic Party. I'm sorry, but there's just really something troubling about that.
    Supported by the knowledgeable, opposed by the ignorant.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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