View Poll Results: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement/.

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  • For

    18 32.73%
  • Against

    34 61.82%
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    3 5.45%
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Thread: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

  1. #181
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I accept the real world definition on the basis of which real people make real decisions.
    Of course because only corporate executives and industry lobbyists are "real people". Your arrogant and elitist attitude toward the people that at least use to make the **** that gives you your cushy life has never been disguised.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  2. #182
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good evening, Jack.

    The link was very interesting reading, since I know little to nothing about this hoped-for agreement, but I kept looking to see China mentioned and they weren't. Were they invited to join in these talks and declined, or were they not invited for some reason, since maybe they have their own agreements in place?
    Howdy Polgara. Foreign affairs, not to be confused with the Council. No, of course China isn't invited to the talks. The fool hearty move by the US has been containment of China. This agreement started years ago with four PRC's and the US only joined it to take the lead in 2009. You can think of TPP as an economic NATO of the pacific, designed to bind PRC's to the US, effectively blocking China out. In reality, USFP which neocons regularly criticize, because you must criticize Obama if your a right winger, is in all actuality supported by right wingers no mater who's in power because of the scant difference in the policies of the two parties, but what you're seeing, as you and I have, I think, agreed upon in the past, is driving both Russia and China closer together. Of the three senators that have gone to the "secret" room and read the draft, Sanders, Warren and the third name escapes me at present, if you listen to their comments on it, you'll get a better understanding from them than you will from Jack, who has criticized another poster for commenting on the agreements negatives when he hasn't even read it, all the while that he supports it when in fact he hasn't read it either, lol. Surely you can see the conflict in a Republican Party that doesn't trust Obama to tell them the truth when they ask him what time it is, to being perfectly willing to give him "decider" authority on this trade deal, at the very same time that his party is steadfastly against it.

    Put another way. If Bush was pushing TPP, and his party was against it, and the democrats wanted to give Bush sole authority to negotiate trade deals without congressional oversight, would you be skeptical of it. Oh, and then add to that that of the 28 committees in America that are secretly negotiating this trade deal, 85% of them are corporate executives and industry lobbyists! and add to that that there are churches, environmental groups, and labor unions against it. There really are reasons to be sceptic all of this treaty. And, just like NAFTA was negotiated by the George H. W. Bush administration, and signed into law by Clinton, this agreement is being pushed by the right, and likely will be signed into law by Obama!!!!!!
    Last edited by Montecresto; 05-16-15 at 02:07 AM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #183
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    I can't believe the forum is against this job outsourcing bonanza! Why won't you all think of the poor Chinese laborers who need your jobs!
    China is not a party to the TPP. Learn first, then post.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  4. #184
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good evening, Jack.

    The link was very interesting reading, since I know little to nothing about this hoped-for agreement, but I kept looking to see China mentioned and they weren't. Were they invited to join in these talks and declined, or were they not invited for some reason, since maybe they have their own agreements in place?
    This piece will provide more insight: TPP, China And The Future Of Global Trade Order

  5. #185
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Howdy Polgara. Foreign affairs, not to be confused with the Council. No, of course China isn't invited to the talks. The fool hearty move by the US has been containment of China. This agreement started years ago with four PRC's and the US only joined it to take the lead in 2009. You can think of TPP as an economic NATO of the pacific, designed to bind PRC's to the US, effectively blocking China out. In reality, USFP which neocons regularly criticize, because you must criticize Obama if your a right winger, is in all actuality supported by right wingers no mater who's in power because of the scant difference in the policies of the two parties, but what you're seeing, as you and I have, I think, agreed upon in the past, is driving both Russia and China closer together. Of the three senators that have gone to the "secret" room and read the draft, Sanders, Warren and the third name escapes me at present, if you listen to their comments on it, you'll get a better understanding from them than you will from Jack, who has criticized another poster for commenting on the agreements negatives when he hasn't even read it, all the while that he supports it when in fact he hasn't read it either, lol. Surely you can see the conflict in a Republican Party that doesn't trust Obama to tell them the truth when they ask him what time it is, to being perfectly willing to give him "decider" authority on this trade deal, at the very same time that his party is steadfastly against it.

    Put another way. If Bush was pushing TPP, and his party was against it, and the democrats wanted to give Bush sole authority to negotiate trade deals without congressional oversight, would you be skeptical of it. Oh, and then add to that that of the 28 committees in America that are secretly negotiating this trade deal, 85% of them are corporate executives and industry lobbyists! and add to that that there are churches, environmental groups, and labor unions against it. There really are reasons to be sceptic all of this treaty. And, just like NAFTA was negotiated by the George H. W. Bush administration, and signed into law by Clinton, this agreement is being pushed by the right, and likely will be signed into law by Obama!!!!!!
    Good morning, Montecresto.

    I have no problem with any country on this planet maneuvering to get the best business deal for themself - things wouldn't be normal otherwise, so I expect that! However, when Senator Warren publically butted heads with Obama on this pending agreement, when they are from the same party, it did cause a strong "uh oh" alarm to ring in my mind. Then when Obama got on TV and called Warren "wrong," I thought WTH is going on!

    When I read what Jack had posted, which was the first time I had seen any particulars on this deal, my first thought was "where is China?," which is why I queried him on that. His response did make sense to me, since my entire working life has been in the business world, and I have first hand knowledge on how business is conducted. I understand why we would try to "contain" China, as you described it, but China is not Bangledesh or some other little backward country. They are a huge world economy, and growing, which is why the IMF will probably grant them "favored nation status," if rumor is correct. It will remain to be seen what their next move might be in responding to this, since they hold over a trillion dollars of our debt, and that makes me uneasy.

    Like I said, it's shaping up to be a long hot Summer in a lot of ways, Monte!

  6. #186
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    This piece will provide more insight: TPP, China And The Future Of Global Trade Order
    Good morning, donsutherland1.

    Thank you for posting that link! It looks like there are a lot of cross-currents and competing interests in place here, and I too wonder why the WTO isn't involved, instead of what seems to be taking place. It will be interesting to watch how all this plays out! China has over a billion cell-phone users, as an example, so they aren't a rinky-dink little player on the world stage, and I can't think they would appreciate efforts to marginalize them - we wouldn't, and they are as important on the world stage as we are! If they decide to join in on this agreement, would, or could, they be told "no," as South Korea apparently was for some reason, without financial repercussions, mainly to our country, since it appears we are taking the lead on this? Puzzling....

  7. #187
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    “A multilateral deal [like Doha] (within the existing WTO framework) is the most cost-effective legal framework available to ensure non-discriminatory trading terms for all, in particular for the smallest and poorest groups,” writes Shuaihua Cheng, managing director of ICTSD China, International Centre for Trade and Sustainable Development. “It is fundamentally essential to foster inclusive globalization, without which abject poverty gives rise to terrorism and crime.”
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  8. #188
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    “A multilateral deal [like Doha] (within the existing WTO framework) is the most cost-effective legal framework available to ensure non-discriminatory trading terms for all, in particular for the smallest and poorest groups,” writes Shuaihua Cheng, managing director of ICTSD China, International Centre for Trade and Sustainable Development. “It is fundamentally essential to foster inclusive globalization, without which abject poverty gives rise to terrorism and crime.”
    Agreed. TPP is a step in that direction.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  9. #189
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Agreed. TPP is a step in that direction.
    China doesn't think so.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  10. #190
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    Re: For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    China doesn't think so.
    My indifference is unlimited.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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