View Poll Results: Should we get rid of welfare?

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  • Yes. Nothing wrong with soup kitchens

    20 45.45%
  • No. Freebies are great

    24 54.55%
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Thread: Should we end welfare?

  1. #61
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    Re: Should we end welfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by kerussll View Post
    I kid, I kid. But seriously, I think you are totally wrong when you say funding doesn't matter.
    Whew!

    Funding doesn't matter to those that want to learn. WANT TO LEARN.

    Of course it matters in general to the masses...
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  2. #62
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    Should we end welfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by kerussll View Post
    But I just provided an extremely simple solution and said I know what to do Fund all public schools equally, adjusted for expenses as they vary from different locations. I'm sure our government would try to make it as complicated as you describe, but it doesn't need to be.
    Equitable funding is and remains complicated, however. Not only do you have to ensure you have a good understanding of what equitable funding is for each area, you also have to get the funds. It's not a simple solution. On top of that, funding is just one means of a school system being able to increase results across demographics that have traditionally underperformed. That's why No Child Left Behind is a perfect case study. Not only did it demand performance increases by way of examinations, it also mandated tracking systems designed to really take a look at the numbers of these kids who were racial minorities, and so on. That was practically unheard of. Yet, have they been doing *that* correctly? The nearly universal view is that the AYP standards are needing significant overhaul at the very least. The data systems which have developed over the past decade have also helped us figure what what's going on and allows us to act, but determining what that should be and how to do it remains difficult among the education professional community, let alone the political class or the voting public.

    Again, nothing is simple at all.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 05-11-15 at 07:08 PM.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Should we end welfare?

    It's a tardigrade, also called the water bear. Look 'em up, they're amazing. They might have extraterrestrial origins.

  4. #64
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    Re: Should we end welfare?

    Should we end welfare?-stick-family-jpg

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
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  5. #65
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    Re: Should we end welfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Equitable funding is and remains complicated, however. Not only do you have to ensure you have a good understanding of what equitable funding is for each area, you also have to get the funds. It's not a simple solution. On top of that, funding is just one means of a school system being able to increase results across demographics that have traditionally underperformed. That's why No Child Left Behind is a perfect case study. Not only did it demand performance increases by way of examinations, it also mandated tracking systems designed to really take a look at the numbers of these kids who were racial minorities, and so on. That was practically unheard of. Yet, have they been doing *that* correctly? The nearly universal view is that the AYP standards are needing significant overhaul at the very least. The data systems which have developed over the past decade have also helped us figure what what's going on and allows us to act, but determining what that should be and how to do it remains difficult among the education professional community, let alone the political class or the voting public.

    Again, nothing is simple at all.
    Oh, don't get me started on no child left behind. That is an idiotic law with massive waste, and harmful consequences. It is basically the exact opposite of my solution, btw. The funds already exist and are going into the schools now, just with dramatic variability among different schools. (There's tons of ways to reduce waste in education, but that's for another debate) A simple equation can calculate cost of living to base teacher's salaries, etc on.

    Bottom line: If you want to reduce social inequality, evening the playing field in education is the way to go. Interesting read about why Finland has some of the best schools in the world and they take exactly this approach.

    What Americans Keep Ignoring About Finland's School Success - The Atlantic


    "Decades ago, when the Finnish school system was badly in need of reform, the goal of the program that Finland instituted, resulting in so much success today, was never excellence. It was equity.

    * * *

    Since the 1980s, the main driver of Finnish education policy has been the idea that every child should have exactly the same opportunity to learn, regardless of family background, income, or geographic location. Education has been seen first and foremost not as a way to produce star performers, but as an instrument to even out social inequality."

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    Re: Should we end welfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Whew!

    Funding doesn't matter to those that want to learn. WANT TO LEARN.

    Of course it matters in general to the masses...
    Exactly.

  7. #67
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    Re: Should we end welfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We spend nearly a trillion dollars each year on means tested handouts. A trillion bucks will buy a lot of soup...
    Assuming you are correct, I have a few questions.

    Where does that trillion dollars come from to give to welfare recipients?
    Once given to welfare recipients where and with whom do they spend it?
    If you stop all trillion dollars in welfare, what happens to the economy that is now short that $1 trillion dollars?

    Let's start there.....
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  8. #68
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    Re: Should we end welfare?

    Means tested benefits are anathema for a multitude of reasons!

    Dump them!

    My two-pronged approach is to first instate true single-payer healthcare as a standalone universal program for all (we're over 40% of the way there, now).

    Then, instate a modest universal 'basic income' program & do away with all other social-welfare programs.

    The income doesn't have to be enough to support an individual or family, but something very modest - there's nothing wrong with a half-dozen individuals pulling resources to share an apartment to survive; it beats the streets.

    I really wonder if the savings from shutting-down the social programs could finance a modest basic income program?
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    Re: Should we end welfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    What value does welfare add that can't be met with soup kitchens, homeless shelters, and giveaways of essentials like used clothing?
    Safety for individuals, esp. women and children. It's not an environment where children can do schoolwork and people can be a 'family'.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #70
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    Re: Should we end welfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    which is what the founders intended. If a state is too generous, it will learn that quickly as too many teat sucklers will migrate to that state and it will go bankrupt. so its self policing
    I'd like to agree with that but esp. in cases like NYC and New York state, that wont work. The poverty-stricken inner city populations...and those affected by them....have much higher numbers proportionally to the rest of the state.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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