View Poll Results: Should we get rid of welfare?

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  • Yes. Nothing wrong with soup kitchens

    20 45.45%
  • No. Freebies are great

    24 54.55%
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Thread: Should we end welfare?

  1. #171
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    Re: Should we end welfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post

    If you took away the tax on Exxon, how many more people could they afford to hire? Probably a lot... because the managers could run the company more efficiently without cash being siphoned off by the government.
    Its not really a question of how many could they hire, its how many would they?

    But even more importantly, why shouldn't they pay taxes?
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
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    Re: Should we end welfare?

    I'm for ending welfare completely only because I think it would force America to actually deal with issues it hides via welfare.

    That said, ending welfare would massively "Finish Off" Rural Poor White America just as it would Inner City Poor Black/Hispanic America.


    The US would become a much more dangerous place and crime would essentially hit South American levels. What nobody really likes to talk about is Welfare is, much like abortion, "Basic Societal Crime Prevention 101". Without Welfare you remove a large, unemployable (for all sorts of reasons) segment of the population from even basic economic participation in society. Welfare is paying someone to not steal. Nobody likes to go into that truth because it's ugly. Yet you remove welfare and crime goes up. All welfare has ever been in any society is a plug to stop the unemployable from robbing the employed. Take that plug away and the inevitable will occur.

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    Re: Should we end welfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    I'm for ending welfare completely only because I think it would force America to actually deal with issues it hides via welfare.

    That said, ending welfare would massively "Finish Off" Rural Poor White America just as it would Inner City Poor Black/Hispanic America.


    The US would become a much more dangerous place and crime would essentially hit South American levels. What nobody really likes to talk about is Welfare is, much like abortion, "Basic Societal Crime Prevention 101". Without Welfare you remove a large, unemployable (for all sorts of reasons) segment of the population from even basic economic participation in society. Welfare is paying someone to not steal. Nobody likes to go into that truth because it's ugly. Yet you remove welfare and crime goes up. All welfare has ever been in any society is a plug to stop the unemployable from robbing the employed. Take that plug away and the inevitable will occur.
    And you would like to see this happen why? Welfare is the hallmark of civilized, first world society.

    I would rather see "welfare" more pro-actively combat poverty. Such as subsidies for higher education (or more subsidies, at least). Healthcare reform (Obamacare does too little, America's healthcare is one of the most expensive in the world and these issues haven't been addressed). Investment in communities, in the form of jobs to fix our crumbling infrastructure. Children should never have to worry about eating or having a roof over their heads, period. But they also shouldn't be used as anchors either.

    These issues are far too complex to address, and will continue to be.

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    Re: Should we end welfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by akrunner88 View Post
    And you would like to see this happen why? Welfare is the hallmark of civilized, first world society.

    I would rather see "welfare" more pro-actively combat poverty. Such as subsidies for higher education (or more subsidies, at least). Healthcare reform (Obamacare does too little, America's healthcare is one of the most expensive in the world and these issues haven't been addressed). Investment in communities, in the form of jobs to fix our crumbling infrastructure. Children should never have to worry about eating or having a roof over their heads, period. But they also shouldn't be used as anchors either.

    These issues are far too complex to address, and will continue to be.

    But look at your post. "Welfare subsidies for higher education"? It's totally out there. Upper class mysticism stuff.

    Sir.. the average welfare person often just barely passed high school if at all, often they are HS dropouts. Even if they did pass HS they usually barely did and that was more thanks to their teachers "pushing them through and making a 50 and 70". These people are nowhere near capable of "higher education". Most can't spell or read beyond a 7th grade level.



    You're paying people to not rob the guy in the Lexus, in the Mercedes. That's what Welfare is (harsh but true). There simply aren't enough jobs. I'd just like welfare to be done away with mostly because I'd find the ensuing chaos amusing and frankly it is "sanctioned theft" essentially taking from one set of citizens and giving their money to another set.


    Welfare ultimately doesn't help the people it is given to because it can't. It just furthers their hopelessness.
    Last edited by Ryan5; 05-19-15 at 11:28 PM.

  5. #175
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    Re: Should we end welfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Thank you!

    As for seniors, a single-payer health system would take care of their medical (as of now they already have single-payer, anyway - AKA Soc Sec), but the modest GBI I envision would likely be below the current individual max SS payment - that might be problematic, and I can't see having a GBI so high that some might see it as an opportunity to go through life on permanent vacation from day one.
    Too high of a GBI risks inflationary and/or debt problems, but we have had 2-3 generations now where the elderly have held their children's generations hostage and raided the treasury for personal benefit. As we speak, people are now paying more into these programs than they will receive from them, whereas when the programs started, they were getting $7-8 out of the programs for every dollar they put in. These programs create social decay.

  6. #176
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    Re: Should we end welfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    I'm for ending welfare completely only because I think it would force America to actually deal with issues it hides via welfare.

    That said, ending welfare would massively "Finish Off" Rural Poor White America just as it would Inner City Poor Black/Hispanic America.


    The US would become a much more dangerous place and crime would essentially hit South American levels. What nobody really likes to talk about is Welfare is, much like abortion, "Basic Societal Crime Prevention 101". Without Welfare you remove a large, unemployable (for all sorts of reasons) segment of the population from even basic economic participation in society. Welfare is paying someone to not steal. Nobody likes to go into that truth because it's ugly. Yet you remove welfare and crime goes up. All welfare has ever been in any society is a plug to stop the unemployable from robbing the employed. Take that plug away and the inevitable will occur.
    I disagree that most people on welfare are unemployable, I just think collecting welfare is easier than working. And are crime rates really lower now compared to before welfare? Look at Detroit.

  7. #177
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    Re: Should we end welfare?

    It's absolutely amazing how many liberals tend to not support welfare as much as many conservatives do.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
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    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  8. #178
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    Re: Should we end welfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    I disagree that most people on welfare are unemployable, I just think collecting welfare is easier than working. And are crime rates really lower now compared to before welfare? Look at Detroit.
    Yeah, Detroit's bad. Crime, on a national level, is down.
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  9. #179
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    Re: Should we end welfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Yeah, Detroit's bad. Crime, on a national level, is down.
    Crime has gone up on almost every level since 1960, esp. violent crime even though the Great Society was implemented.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

  10. #180
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    Re: Should we end welfare?

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    Crime has gone up on almost every level since 1960, esp. violent crime even though the Great Society was implemented.

    Crime in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    From your link:

    Crime in the United States has been recorded since colonization. Crime rates have varied over time, with a sharp rise after 1963, reaching a broad peak between the 1970s and early 1990s. Since then, crime has declined significantly in the United States,[1] and current crime rates are approximately the same as those of the 1960s.

    Crime is up from Depression-era levels because of increased urbanization.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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