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Thread: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

  1. #81
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    Re: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

    Quote Originally Posted by wist43 View Post
    1.)To be sure the courts have been butchering and expanding the meaning of the Constitution for decades - to now where it means pretty much nothing in terms of constraining the power of the FedGov.
    2.)To leftists this is, of course, a wonderful thing b/c in your view the government should be unchained to do "good" things for those less fortunate, to make life "fair", etc...
    3.)That is a bill of goods though. It is the Establishment that has been packing the court since FDR, and the agenda of the Establishment has nothing whatsoever to do with altruism or helping anyone. Their agenda is one of power - power over the people. Since they control the government, and the government is increasingly gaining power and control over the people, it only makes sense that they would back any scheme are strategy that speeds them along that path.
    4.)Just as in most authoritarian societies, the lowest on the socioeconomic scale are the easiest targets to ensnare, indoctrinate, and put out in front of the fight. Here in the U.S., any cause will do - racism, sexual minorities, illegal immigrants, women... anyone who is ignorant and/or dishonest enough to think their advancement trumps the rights of others.
    5.)Those of you arguing that the FedGov has the authority to force private citizens to engage in commerce against their will, purchase financial instruments against their will, tell the how much they can make, who they have to hire, who they can't fire, etc... you are arguing in favor of authoritarian rule. Just b/c you rationalize that that rule is being directed at the behest of the majority of citizens does not make it any less authoritarian, anti-American, and anti-liberty.
    1.) based on what facts?
    2.) who is a leftist? lol
    also when did I ever say what you claim?
    make things up only further shows the complete failure of your posts
    3.) again more meanignless unsupportable subjective opinion . . do you have anythign factual or of merit?
    4.) see #3
    5.) nobody has argued that, again posting lies only further exposes the failure of your posts lol

    again, when you get a chance simply post the facts that support your failed and proven wrong claims, we would love to read them. thanks!
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  2. #82
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    Re: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Quick comment here folks...

    I see a lot of people going on and on about not caring about a businesses "political/social views on issues".

    That's not really a question here.

    If a business is actively discriminating against hiring or selling to a particular group of people, that is not a "political/social view"...that is a BUSINESS PRACTICE.

    I doubt anyone here would suggest that the business practices of a business don't impact your decision as to whether or not you shop there. NOW, what may be accurate is that business practices that don't negative affect YOU may not hold much sway with you, but it's still a business practice that's being talked about.

    Not boycotting based on the political views of the businesses owners would mean not caring whether or not the owner, personally, gives money or support to political entities. That's different than actually implimenting a business policy.

    That, to me, would be the difference between Chick-Fil-A's philanthropic arm giving money to groups that fight gay rights, and Chick-Fil-A actually banning gay customers from their store. The first is a political view held by the company's leadership, the latter is an actual business practice.
    I know the difference between a business' political/social views and their business practice (who they sell to, what they sell, etc.). It doesn't change what I posted. The only time I make a conscious decision to not spend my money somewhere is if I know animal abuse is involved in their product. Other than that, I don't care what they do as long as I perceive what I'm spending my money on is the best value. Most of us have our causes, and that's mine. I don't expect everyone else to think as I do, and I don't want everyone else to expect me to think as they do.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  3. #83
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    Re: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Quick comment here folks...

    I see a lot of people going on and on about not caring about a businesses "political/social views on issues".

    That's not really a question here.

    If a business is actively discriminating against hiring or selling to a particular group of people, that is not a "political/social view"...that is a BUSINESS PRACTICE.

    I doubt anyone here would suggest that the business practices of a business don't impact your decision as to whether or not you shop there. NOW, what may be accurate is that business practices that don't negative affect YOU may not hold much sway with you, but it's still a business practice that's being talked about.

    Not boycotting based on the political views of the businesses owners would mean not caring whether or not the owner, personally, gives money or support to political entities. That's different than actually implimenting a business policy.

    That, to me, would be the difference between Chick-Fil-A's philanthropic arm giving money to groups that fight gay rights, and Chick-Fil-A actually banning gay customers from their store. The first is a political view held by the company's leadership, the latter is an actual business practice.
    If a business bases their business practices on their personal beliefs, then they are making a political and/or social statement with their business.

    Generic comment.
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    Re: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    If a business bases their business practices on their personal beliefs, then they are making a political and/or social statement with their business.

    Generic comment.
    Yes, they're making the political statement with their business...but they're still doing it with a business practice. It is not simply or singularly a "political statement" any longer, but also a business practice. And I also don't think a political statement is exactly the same as a political view. One's an action, one's a thought.

    The business owner has a view. He puts that view into action to make a statement, and he does it by instituting a business practice.
    Imagine if Walmart owned access to all the streets in your town. You can go to Target or the mom and pop downtown if you want, but all the roads leading there require a toll, whereas the roads leading to Walmart are free. That is not the avenue the internet needs to go down.

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    Re: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes, they're making the political statement with their business...but they're still doing it with a business practice. It is not simply or singularly a "political statement" any longer, but also a business practice. And I also don't think a political statement is exactly the same as a political view. One's an action, one's a thought.

    The business owner has a view. He puts that view into action to make a statement, and he does it by instituting a business practice.
    I'm just not seeing a lot of distinction.

    An action or practice is based on a view, the two go hand-in-hand in that regard, the action/practice wouldn't exist without the view. But a view doesn't have to result in an action or practice.
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    Re: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I'm just not seeing a lot of distinction.

    An action or practice is based on a view, the two go hand-in-hand in that regard, the action/practice wouldn't exist without the view. But a view doesn't have to result in an action or practice.
    But the view can exist without the action. A person can believe that same sex marriage is wrong without discriminating against homosexuals or same sex couples in their business, even when it comes to providing services for same sex weddings. It's the same for so many other views too. A person can believe condoms or birth control are wrong and still be able to sell those items to others, but simply not use them themselves.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  7. #87
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    Re: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I'm just not seeing a lot of distinction.

    An action or practice is based on a view, the two go hand-in-hand in that regard, the action/practice wouldn't exist without the view. But a view doesn't have to result in an action or practice.
    But the view can exist without the action. A person can believe that same sex marriage is wrong without discriminating against homosexuals or same sex couples in their business, even when it comes to providing services for same sex weddings. It's the same for so many other views too. A person can believe condoms or birth control are wrong and still be able to sell those items to others, but simply not use them themselves.
    Right. That's what I said.
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  8. #88
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    Re: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I'm just not seeing a lot of distinction.

    An action or practice is based on a view, the two go hand-in-hand in that regard, the action/practice wouldn't exist without the view. But a view doesn't have to result in an action or practice.
    I agree with Zyph. On a strictly "right or wrong" scenario discrimination is bad and I wouldn't visit a place because I don't like their view.

    On the other hand...it is a business practice and it shows you the mentality of the owner/organization.

    The best thing I can think of is something that happened to me years ago.

    I heard about this wing place that supposedly had amazing wings. I was having a party and decided to order from them. I called in the order and they gave me a time to pick up. I showed up at that time and waited like 45 minutes and it was obvious they waited until I showed up to make the wings.

    I thought...well maybe that's a one time thing. Who knows, they may of been busy, I was pissed but gave them the benefit of the doubt and their wings were fantastic.

    Decided to get wings another day and called in a much smaller order for pickup.

    Once again...sit there and wait and it was obvious when they told me a time to wait before I stop by they were bs'ing me.

    Even though the wings were good I haven't been back since. If they had a "no call aheads" policy at least I know what I'm getting. Instead, they obviously give people the perception they can call ahead and then only cook when the person gets there.

    It shows me that for whatever reason the owner of the establishment prefers the convenience of his establishment over his customer. Even if they have a couple of people that call in and don't show that isn't a massive amount of cost, yet they choose to make me sit there and wait rather than make it convenient for me to stop by and pick up wings.

    Saying you don't serve certain people is a business decision like that, where the owner decides his views, what makes him comfortable is more important than the business and it's customers. So, from a philosophical viewpoint would never visit such a business establishment but it is also a business decision that shows the owners priorities.

    Maybe what I wrote makes no sense whatsoever but that's how I make the distinction.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Saying you don't serve certain people is a business decision like that, where the owner decides his views, what makes him comfortable is more important than the business and it's customers. So, from a philosophical viewpoint would never visit such a business establishment but it is also a business decision that shows the owners priorities.

    Maybe what I wrote makes no sense whatsoever but that's how I make the distinction.
    Except the "RFRA" are written in such a way that prevents even the store owner from disciplining an employee who refuses to sell to lgbt. In theory a mcdonald's drive thru clerk could refuse to sell to the obese, because gluttony is a sin, costing mcdonald's 80% of their customer base. So it doesn't necessarily reflect the owner's views or even the manager's, but the zit-faced teenager who knows nothing of smart business decisions

    This is what happens what unrelenting hate infects public policy - 2 page laws that are as broad as possible

  10. #90
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    Re: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I was commenting on the bold, not Chic fillet. And my comment was re: your opinion, not the CF CEO's.



    It was about not respecting people that had to fight for their civil rights.
    Once again, Chick Filet did nothing wrong. The CEO expressed his own opinions....which had nothing whatsoever with Chick Filet's business practices. They do not practice discrimination against anyone. Get over it.

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