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Thread: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

  1. #31
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    Re: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    tyranny of the majority is more like denying an entire subset of people the right to marry or have sex with whoever they want, simply because the majority dislikes them. If this were happening to bigot business owners, you might have a point, although even then it would simply be deserved.

    A boycott of discriminatory business is hardly tyranny, get real. This tactic in fact put a stop to indiana's attempts to oppress lgbt, and it needs to be deployed more often if anything.
    I'm not saying a boycott is tyranny of the majority - a boycott is the exercise of free expression by an group of people. Nothing illegal about that. I am not speaking against boycotts.

    I am speaking against the government acting as a positive agent for the majority, outside its proper authority. The FedGov should have no say in the daily dealings of private businesses.

    This is America - America is supposed to be about freedom. If the LGBT group is refused patronage by one business, they are free to patronize another business who would only be too happy to accept their money. Everyone remains free to live their lives as they see fit.

    Where this goes off the rails is when, in this case, the LGBT community and their supporters seek to use the power of government to coerce another citizen to accede to their demands and force them to do business with them against their will.

  2. #32
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    Re: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

    Quote Originally Posted by wist43 View Post
    I'm not saying a boycott is tyranny of the majority - a boycott is the exercise of free expression by an group of people. Nothing illegal about that. I am not speaking against boycotts.

    I am speaking against the government acting as a positive agent for the majority, outside its proper authority. The FedGov should have no say in the daily dealings of private businesses.

    This is America - America is supposed to be about freedom. If the LGBT group is refused patronage by one business, they are free to patronize another business who would only be too happy to accept their money. Everyone remains free to live their lives as they see fit.

    Where this goes off the rails is when, in this case, the LGBT community and their supporters seek to use the power of government to coerce another citizen to accede to their demands and force them to do business with them against their will.
    Most Americans are perfectly happy with the government having a say in the inner workings of business. We are a better country because of it.

    No one is forcing you to engage in commerce. You do not have to operate a business. But when you decide to do so, you decide to operate under the rules government, elected and voted in by the people, have imposed on you.

  3. #33
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    Re: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    You've managed to completely ignore the fact that this thread isn't about imposing government force on business owners.
    No I didn't - I said I wouldn't have a problem doing business with a business who discriminated against someone else... it would depend.

    That said, I don't begrudge them their freedom to do business with anyone they wish - including to refuse me service. It's their business.

  4. #34
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    Re: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

    Quote Originally Posted by wist43 View Post
    No I didn't - I said I wouldn't have a problem doing business with a business who discriminated against someone else... it would depend.

    That said, I don't begrudge them their freedom to do business with anyone they wish - including to refuse me service. It's their business.
    You may not begrudge them for doing so, but legally you would have the right to sue them ;-) as it's illegal. No one cares about how you FEEL, we care about what is legal. And whether or not you hold ill will towards a business for discriminating against you is irrelevant. They are legally acting in the wrong.

  5. #35
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    Re: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

    Quote Originally Posted by wist43 View Post
    That isn't what you said - it isn't even what you implied I don't think.

    To answer that question - no, I'm not against people boycotting anything. Everyone is free, or should be free, to frequent, or not frequent any business they choose - assuming the business owner chooses to do business with them. Why should the business owner surrender his rights??

    What I am against, is any group or individual using the power of government to coerce another individual, group, or private business into complying with their demands - whatever they may be.

    Unless someone is committing some act of harm upon another, then it is not within the governments authority (proper authority) to be involved in any way. Of course the country has shifted so far to the left now, that the average Amerikan citizen thinks it only proper that the government should be used as a truncheon against anyone who doesn't comply with what the majority dictates.

    I may, or may not, patronize a business for one reason or another - but that is my business; just as you have the freedom to boycott a business; just as the business owner has the freedom to refuse service to anyone for any reason, afterall, it is their PRIVATE BUSINESS.
    So in this mess of a tangent I was able to manage the understanding that you are okay with a business discriminating against anybody for any reason. Even if they were blacks, Jews, Hispanic, etc. What if you lived in a town (let's say some place like Alabama) as a black gay atheist. Do you think you could live with the same respect as your neighbor if the bakery, pizza shop, super market, and mechanic were able to discriminate and have signs that read "No Blacks, gays, atheist, etc" ?
    The risk I took was calculated but man, am I bad at math.

  6. #36
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    Re: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

    Quote Originally Posted by akrunner88 View Post
    Most Americans are perfectly happy with the government having a say in the inner workings of business. We are a better country because of it.

    No one is forcing you to engage in commerce. You do not have to operate a business. But when you decide to do so, you decide to operate under the rules government, elected and voted in by the people, have imposed on you.
    No we're not a better country for it... b/c the government has no such authority to begin with. You're agreeing that the government can operate outside the very law that is supposed to limit it.

    Just as most Americans agree that the Patriot Act is necessary - neverminding that it too is entirely unconstitutional, and a direct threat to everyone's liberty - the same as these laws that seek to control a supposedly private business.

    Again, that is fascism.

  7. #37
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    Re: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

    Quote Originally Posted by akrunner88 View Post
    You may not begrudge them for doing so, but legally you would have the right to sue them ;-) as it's illegal. No one cares about how you FEEL, we care about what is legal. And whether or not you hold ill will towards a business for discriminating against you is irrelevant. They are legally acting in the wrong.
    How is legal?? or illegal??

    Where does the FedGov have the authority??

    In the case of Indiana, they are simply standing up for the rights of business owners - the law stands up for liberty.

    It is amazing how this escapes Americans today.

  8. #38
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    Re: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

    Quote Originally Posted by CMPancake View Post
    So in this mess of a tangent I was able to manage the understanding that you are okay with a business discriminating against anybody for any reason. Even if they were blacks, Jews, Hispanic, etc. What if you lived in a town (let's say some place like Alabama) as a black gay atheist. Do you think you could live with the same respect as your neighbor if the bakery, pizza shop, super market, and mechanic were able to discriminate and have signs that read "No Blacks, gays, atheist, etc" ?
    It's their business, lol...

    If I were discriminated against in such a way that I couldn't live day to day - I would move. I surely wouldn't go crying to government.

  9. #39
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    Re: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

    Take heart guys...

    This is your country now. The government is completely unconstrained by the rule of law. As a result, none of us is safe from the awful power of government.

    Sadly, somewhere along the line you people were indoctrinated into believing that government should be positively empowered outside the rule of law. Be in the name of democracy, or fairness, or whatever... as a result, the government is a beast that will continue to manipulate the people and society until such time as all of our liberties will be completely crushed.

    What is happening here in America today, is exactly what happened in previous great societies that died, went the way of democracy, collapsed, and emerged under authoritarian rule of flavor or another.

    What is happening in America today, is exactly what our founding fathers warned us against, and attempted to prevent by crafting an thoroughly negative Constitution that was intended to constrain government, and not the people themselves.

    What you people are saying is the exact opposite of what liberty means, and what our country was founded upon.

  10. #40
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    Re: Would you patronize a business that discriminated against LGBT people?

    I believe the year was 1994. Anita Bryant had come under attack for opposing gay something or other and gays wanted her to lose her contract to promote Florida orange juice. I don't remember exactly how but Rush Limbaugh was also involved. He may have had a spokesperson position as well. Gloria Steinem came to Tampa to lead a protest against Florida orange juice. She was on the news pouring a gallon of juice out on Fowler avenue in front of a grocery store.

    Limbaugh suggested that people go to the grocery and buy orange juice in support of Bryant. The store sold out of orange juice. I bought a hundred dollars worth. That by the way is an impossible amount of orange juice to drink before it goes bad.

    As Steinem left in her Mercedes she drove by me on my way to my truck. I raised a carton of juice as she drove by. She raised her middle finger in response. Uncivil I thought.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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