View Poll Results: When a Cop (or Former Cop) is Put on Trial, What Should the Standard of Proof Be?

Voters
27. You may not vote on this poll
  • No minimal standard. Where there's smoke.....

    0 0%
  • Reasonable Suspicion

    0 0%
  • Probable Cause

    0 0%
  • Preponderance of the Evidence

    1 3.70%
  • Clear and Convincing

    1 3.70%
  • Beyond a Reasonable Doubt

    23 85.19%
  • Beyond All Possible Doubt

    0 0%
  • Something else

    2 7.41%
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 44

Thread: When a Cop (or Former Cop) is Put on Trial, What Should the Standard of Proof Be?

  1. #31
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:03 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    41,277

    Re: When a Cop (or Former Cop) is Put on Trial, What Should the Standard of Proof Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Wouldn't that depend on the crime/accusation?


    Beyond reasonable doubt is the basic principle of our criminal justice system.

    Now in most states there is "affirmative defense" where the concept is you "admit" committing an act that is usually a crime (like killing someone) but claim it is justified based on XYZ (usually self-defense or defense of others, or a situation where a reasonable person would have felt seriously threatened). In many states that does change the standard of evidence somewhat... how much depends on the jurisdiction. Anti-SD states try to come as close to making you "prove it was SD" as they can without upsetting SCOTUS; some Pro-SD states only require that there is no reasonable proof that it was NOT.

    So it could possibly vary in that sense.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  2. #32
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    50,439

    Re: When a Cop (or Former Cop) is Put on Trial, What Should the Standard of Proof Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Watching one of the news networks and one of the guests was lamenting the lack of convictions when the defendant is someone who is or was a cop. I found that interesting and the implication seemed to be that conviction in the Gray case needs to be a pretty much forgone conclusion. Honestly, I'm not sure at all how you get a murder conviction based on the facts as I understand them to be (which may be far different than what's presented at trial), much less a definite conviction. I started wondering if people believed that the prosecutions burden should be something less (or perhaps more) than beyond a reasonable doubt when the person tried is a cop. I actually think a legit argument could be made than someone is a position of authority they way cops are, should not also enjoy quite the same constitutional protections as ordinary citizens although I would totally disagree with that position. What do you think?
    For criminal charges, in a court of law, the standards are the same for anyone else. People who abuse government powers, criminally, get the same protections and process. That's not what we have going on currently, typically the thin blue line protects its own so that charges are not brought up often and often times if charges are brought, they are woefully undercharged relative to the rest of the populace. But it should be the same as everyone else, from perp-walk to jury decision.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #33
    Phonetic Mnemonic
    radcen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Look to your right... I'm that guy.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:38 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    27,533

    Re: When a Cop (or Former Cop) is Put on Trial, What Should the Standard of Proof Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Beyond reasonable doubt is the basic principle of our criminal justice system.

    Now in most states there is "affirmative defense" where the concept is you "admit" committing an act that is usually a crime (like killing someone) but claim it is justified based on XYZ (usually self-defense or defense of others, or a situation where a reasonable person would have felt seriously threatened). In many states that does change the standard of evidence somewhat... how much depends on the jurisdiction. Anti-SD states try to come as close to making you "prove it was SD" as they can without upsetting SCOTUS; some Pro-SD states only require that there is no reasonable proof that it was NOT.

    So it could possibly vary in that sense.
    I guess I'm thinking more about criminal vs civil, etc., which may not be pertinent to the OP's intent.
    Huntsman / Kasich 2020

    Sean Spicer is the new Baghdad Bob

  4. #34
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:03 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    41,277

    Re: When a Cop (or Former Cop) is Put on Trial, What Should the Standard of Proof Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I guess I'm thinking more about criminal vs civil, etc., which may not be pertinent to the OP's intent.


    Yeah, civil suits are "preponderance of evidence". If a cop is in a civil suit, then it should be so.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  5. #35
    Tavern Bartender
    Kinky tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    34,149

    Re: When a Cop (or Former Cop) is Put on Trial, What Should the Standard of Proof Be?

    Exactly the same as what it would be if the person was not a cop.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  6. #36
    Actually I am.

    Superfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    East Coast
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    19,388

    Re: When a Cop (or Former Cop) is Put on Trial, What Should the Standard of Proof Be?

    Cops are no better or worse than anyone else, so the standard of proof should be just like it is for the rest of us. No better, no worse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky
    It's easy to be a Conservative, until you need help.
    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug
    Asking Sarah Palin to head up the Department of Education is like asking Hitler to head up a human rights advocacy group.

  7. #37
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    10-15-16 @ 03:10 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,568
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: When a Cop (or Former Cop) is Put on Trial, What Should the Standard of Proof Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Not a racist jury, a scared jury. The police will know who served on the jury. And we are already seeing how they seem to be of one mind when it comes to abusing power with the impoverished, I have no doubt that the jury worries what the defendants' cohorts will do, or not do, that will cause the jurors harm or distress.
    This would be more likely in lower population communities. There also is the potential of a prosecutor's retaliations.

  8. #38
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    10-15-16 @ 03:10 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,568
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: When a Cop (or Former Cop) is Put on Trial, What Should the Standard of Proof Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    Cops are no better or worse than anyone else, so the standard of proof should be just like it is for the rest of us. No better, no worse.
    I think it more a question of should police be held to the same legal standards, with some specific exceptions such as exempt from illegal imprisonment due to making an arrest.

    If these same actions were taken by non-police, it would be described as a particularly vicious, cruel and brutal murder - and likely no one would disagree.

    By my understanding, that man had done exactly NOTHING illegal. Yet scores of people have the attitude of "oh well, these things just happen to people sometimes, nothing illegal in this."

    There is something SERIOUSLY wrong if police can just assault anyone and treat anyone like that resulting in their violent death, and it's ok.

  9. #39
    Actually I am.

    Superfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    East Coast
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    19,388

    Re: When a Cop (or Former Cop) is Put on Trial, What Should the Standard of Proof Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I think it more a question of should police be held to the same legal standards, with some specific exceptions such as exempt from illegal imprisonment due to making an arrest.

    If these same actions were taken by non-police, it would be described as a particularly vicious, cruel and brutal murder - and likely no one would disagree.

    By my understanding, that man had done exactly NOTHING illegal. Yet scores of people have the attitude of "oh well, these things just happen to people sometimes, nothing illegal in this."

    There is something SERIOUSLY wrong if police can just assault anyone and treat anyone like that resulting in their violent death, and it's ok.
    If we are talking about Freddie Gray, I agree with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky
    It's easy to be a Conservative, until you need help.
    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug
    Asking Sarah Palin to head up the Department of Education is like asking Hitler to head up a human rights advocacy group.

  10. #40
    Dungeon Master
    Hooter Babe



    DiAnna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Northern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    29,553

    Re: When a Cop (or Former Cop) is Put on Trial, What Should the Standard of Proof Be?

    Police officers should be held to the same judicial standard as any other member of society.

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •