View Poll Results: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

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  • Yes, government can prohibit protester gathers

    4 18.18%
  • Yes, public safety is more important that protest rights

    2 9.09%
  • Maybe, it depends on the circumstance

    8 36.36%
  • No, people have a right to protest in public

    8 36.36%
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Thread: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

  1. #41
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    Re: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    I don't want to give people the right to do something that asinine and unproductive.
    Nobody really does, but when it comes to recognition of rights placing emphasis on liberty, you open up many avenues for people to be asinine and unproductive. Hell, the whole of the internet alone allows for that.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  2. #42
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    Re: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Those few thugs (used on purpose) caused MILLIONS of dollars in damage on (just) Monday night. Had a curfew been put into effect on Monday, millions could have been saved -- and still allow for all the peaceful demonstration Baltimore wanted during the day.

    Personally, I don't have such a tenuous grasp on my civil rights that I am appalled by curfews when thugs are trying to burn down the city and steal every chance they get. You?

    You assert that a citywide curfew was the only solution. I do not think it was.

    This was not citywide and the problem was dealing with looting and arson at night, while at the same time there were thousands of lawful protesters at night.

    Therefore, if there was an emergency situation then it should have been to prohibit gatherings of more than half a dozen people from 10 pm to 5 am in the affected area, and to do the "designated protest area" picking a park, and not a total citywide lock down.

    There are other issues such as holding all the police back and not bringing in the Guardsmen earlier. Why wouldn't that have worked? To declare an emergency basis to prohibit large gatherings outside an area such as a park during those hours?

    Other issues I have, seemingly a contradict, of why didn't the police charge those small groups - usually 100 or less - throwing rocks and bottles at them arresting them - as they should be arrested and convicted of assault against police - a felony?

    What affected my opinion was a Maryland State Senator for that jurisdiction pointing out to FOX news that while they were singularly videotaping about 100 people - a few of those throwing things at the police - there were thousands of peaceful protesters totally ignored by the media and that Baltimore has nearly 700,000 people - for which the ONLY interest was in those 100 or so. And, then, on top of that, little to no effort was made to arrest the 100 or so actually committing crimes.

    The criminals? Nothing happened to them. Rather, the action was for the most part against everyone else.

    Looting and arson? Happens all over the country. Flash-mobs (looting) has become fairly common. They don't lock down the entire city. Arson isn't rare either.

    The MEDIA sold the pitch of OMG BALTIMORE IS BEING BURNED TO THE GROUND - and that wasn't happening. They portrayed that looting and arson were out of control all over the city. That wasn't happening. And they seemed to sell the idea that thousands of people were engaging in looting, which wasn't happening either. This was happening in one poor income neighborhood for which there were probably 20 police for every looter,which rose to about a 50 to 1 ratio.

    So then isolate that neighborhood, declare gatherings outside designated areas are illegal at certain hours, and aggressively/instantly go after those few committing crimes in that neighborhood and against the police. In my opinion, the mayor and police were more acting to demands of the media upon the portrayals of the media, than the actual reality.

    Maybe it SEEMS trivial, but it would be something taken from my life if told we couldn't do our night-time shark fishing due to it being illegal to tow our boat back home - because there was a higher than usual crime rate going on in a small city miles away. "Well, then why are you bothering us? Go arrest those criminals" would be my attitude.

    Also, if you are familiar with Baltimore, there is a very popular tourist beach front - and those are weekend businesses - restaurants and bars - and those also all ordered closed - though NO problems there at all. It is almost like a completely different city. So wreck everyone's once-a-year vacation too?

    I really do think that woman had a valid excuse in saying that she lives in that neighborhood and she wanted to go outside and look at the stars. The idea that a mayor can just declare that's a criminal offense seems wrong somehow.

    I do understand your opinion and yes there is a balancing act sometimes. I think they went too far.

  3. #43
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    Re: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

    When that "peaceful" protest turns violent it's no longer protected as a peaceable assembly. And yes, curfews are one of the legitimate and legal answers to riots. You just can't spin what is happening in Baltimore as a peaceable assembly.

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    Re: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    SCOTUS has ruled that time and place restrictions by the government are constitutional. The government just can't discriminate based on content or viewpoint. I support the need for a permit since the government does not have the right to restrict based on viewpoint/content.

    I think it is a good idea to limit the time and place of protests. Look at the people during the Ferguson incident who sat in the middle of a highway blocking traffic in protest. I don't want to give people the right to do something that asinine and unproductive.

    Curfews I think are okay in the event of riots. However, there has to be a imminent need for the curfew in my opinion.
    Except blocking traffic is illegal.

    Therein is another problem with how things were handled. The police should ticket or arrest (depending on the offense) those breaking the law. That'd go a long way to stop it growing and escalating.

    Instead, the police typically create a defensive battle line and do nothing about those actually committing crimes - even if outright within their view. To just stand back and watch it happen. In doing so, it escalates. THEN, after the escalation allowed to happen, to declare some crisis that could have been avoided in the first place.

    Go to ANY poor crowded community and declare police aren't going to do anything and there will be looting and arson. And it will escalate. So nothing is done for a couple of days/nights allowing it to escalate nearly out of control, and then suspending legal rights in an extreme reaction beyond what is necessary.

    The first media pictures should have been of looters being arrested by scores of police - not the police standing back and just watching.

  5. #45
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    Re: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    When that "peaceful" protest turns violent it's no longer protected as a peaceable assembly. And yes, curfews are one of the legitimate and legal answers to riots. You just can't spin what is happening in Baltimore as a peaceable assembly.
    Nor can you spin the thousands of peaceful protesters into looters, arsonists and rioters, nor can you do so for the other 700,000 people of Baltimore.

    The media declaring all of Baltimore has exploded in rioting by showing video of the same two blocks and the same burning building over and over and over - and only showing that - does NOT make that the reality.

  6. #46
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    Re: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I'm with ya, except I have concerns about "bogart a public space". If someone is using a public park, and not impeding traffic, part of me says they're entitled to... with reasonable time limits so other people can use the space as well.
    As far as I know this was not done during the occupy protests.They took over a public space,camped out and refused to leave.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  7. #47
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    Re: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Nor can you spin the thousands of peaceful protesters into looters, arsonists and rioters, nor can you do so for the other 700,000 people of Baltimore.

    The media declaring all of Baltimore has exploded in rioting by showing video of the same two blocks and the same burning building over and over and over - and only showing that - does NOT make that the reality.
    No, you're right, the reality of the riot makes it reality. And yes those "thousands of peaceful protestors" become a mob the moment rioting breaks out anywhere in the mob. You do NOT have a right to protest, you have a right to peaceable assembly and to air your grievances before government.

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    Re: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, you're right, the reality of the riot makes it reality. And yes those "thousands of peaceful protestors" become a mob the moment rioting breaks out anywhere in the mob. You do NOT have a right to protest, you have a right to peaceable assembly and to air your grievances before government.
    Your second sentence is a false assumption since that did not happen. Your last sentence is an oxymoron.

  9. #49
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    Re: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Nobody really does, but when it comes to recognition of rights placing emphasis on liberty, you open up many avenues for people to be asinine and unproductive. Hell, the whole of the internet alone allows for that.
    Free speech means the government cannot discriminate based on the content or viewpoint of your speech. Free speech has never meant you have the right to have a demonstration wherever you want or at whatever time you want.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  10. #50
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    Re: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    As far as I know this was not done during the occupy protests.They took over a public space,camped out and refused to leave.
    Yes, they did. Refuse to leave, that is.

    Others during other protests, though, have not.
    April Fool's Day is the one day of the year
    that people critically evaluate news articles before accepting them as true.

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