View Poll Results: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

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  • Yes, government can prohibit protester gathers

    4 18.18%
  • Yes, public safety is more important that protest rights

    2 9.09%
  • Maybe, it depends on the circumstance

    8 36.36%
  • No, people have a right to protest in public

    8 36.36%
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Thread: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

  1. #31
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    Re: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

    It appears the government ALLOWS people to have Constitutional rights UNLESS the government thinks otherwise.

    Another example was the door to door warrantless searches of homes after the Boston bombing. Because the police decided there was a reason to disregard the US Constitution's Bill Of Rights, they did so.

    Basically, to be accurate, the Bill Of Rights should have "Unless anyone in government decides otherwise,..."

    OH... and for all the people who curse the federal government being too powerful, wanting "states rights" instead for freedom's sake, MOST summary termination of civil rights is by local and state government (local government is an arm of state government), not the federal government. The summary house-confinement of nearly 700,000 people in Baltimore was by the local mayor, not Washington DC.

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    Re: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    The curfew exempted people going back and forth to work, Joko. You look at the curfew as punishment. I, in the other hand, look at it as keeping people safe. Most especially young people.
    I was mistaken on that. IF an employee had an ID and a letter from their employer, they could go to work. However, it also ordered most businesses essentially closed or literally closed.

    I think it was Eisenhower who said if a person really wants safety, get yourself put in jail. Then you are safe from other people. There is inherent danger to freedom, just like there is to lack of freedom.

    Yes, I suppose it would be safer if everyone in the USA was prohibited from being out of their home except with documentation they are traveling to and from work. Everything a person needs and wants an be ordered online.

    What would be interesting would be to see if incidents of domestic violence increases when people are locked up together in their tiny apartments. But, probably, you would be safer if it was illegal for anyone to leave their home except to documentably go to and from work. Acceptable policy?

    No one has asked why the curfew wasn't just for the affected areas and the prohibition against public gatherings after 10 pm, rather than absolute and citywide. To have the minimal lose of rights to the minimal number of people, rather than the maximum lose of rights 100% to everyone?
    Last edited by joko104; 05-04-15 at 12:35 PM.

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    Re: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Well, clearly, your solution is for the police to let protests lead to riots and then for the police to attempt to pick off rioters from those simply observing all while the riot is going on. Perhaps you'd like to put your life on the line to stop masked and potentially armed anarchists as they torch and loot randomly and at will.

    The curfew was instituted in an established area of the city to avoid the rioting that took place previous nights. People could visit their neighbours, hang out in their backyards, work if they had a nighttime job to go to, etc. - they just couldn't loiter around a hot spot in the city where rioting had occurred. You'd have to be brain dead and a fool - which the Baltimore Mayor clearly originally was - to think that under the darkness of night elements of those protesting were not going to be violent and destructive. Baltimore isn't the first city to ever experience such "peaceful" protesting at 1, 2, 3 in the morning.
    Rioting isn't illegal. Only individuals committing illegal acts is illegal. Protesters don't have to be orderly, quiet and nice.

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    Re: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    like you, I presume the direct reference was to Baltimore. But the question was phrased in a general way.
    Because this is not something that has only happened in Baltimore.

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    Re: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Not that facts necessarily matter to you, it was the mayor you curse that is who implemented the curfew.

    People in apartments don't have yards.

    The curfew was citywide and NOT just "hot spots," another false fact you assert.

    However, I was incorrect that employees could go to work if they had an ID and letter from their employee. As for businesses, some could remain open but nearly all ordered closed (or rather no customers allowed to get there).
    Facts are very important and relevant to any discussion of the implementation of such a policy.

    Yes, it was the Mayor who foolishly told police to stand down who then saw the error of her ways, listened to more intelligent and reasoned voices, and implemented the curfew.

    It was my understanding that the curfew was for those areas considered downtown Baltimore, not for all the suburbs as well - you could be correct.

    People in apartments would have more opportunity to meet with neighbours, having more immediate neighbours in the same building.

    I suspect a lot of fast food delivery places did great business during the curfew, but you're right that many businesses that open 24/7 and depend on walk in customers, would be adversely affected. Better that than having their business burned to the ground and/or their employees assaulted.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Who was it who said if people pick safety over freedom, they will have neither?

    And I think it was Eisenhower who said the safest place is being in jail (though actually it isn't.)

    In Baltimore, nearly 700,000 people were placed under house arrest on behalf of safety because of looters and arsonists in one area of one neighborhood - in the name of public safety.
    Benjamin Franklin - "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I was mistaken on that. IF an employee had an ID and a letter from their employer, they could go to work. However, it also ordered most businesses essentially closed or literally closed.

    I think it was Eisenhower who said if a person really wants safety, get yourself put in jail. Then you are safe from other people. There is inherent danger to freedom, just like there is to lack of freedom.

    Yes, I suppose it would be safer if everyone in the USA was prohibited from being out of their home except with documentation they are traveling to and from work. Everything a person needs and wants an be ordered online.

    What would be interesting would be to see if incidents of domestic violence increases when people are locked up together in their tiny apartments. But, probably, you would be safer if it was illegal for anyone to leave their home except to documentably go to and from work. Acceptable policy?

    No one has asked why the curfew wasn't just for the affected areas and the prohibition against public gatherings after 10 pm, rather than absolute and citywide. To have the minimal lose of rights to the minimal number of people, rather than the maximum lose of rights 100% to everyone?
    Those few thugs (used on purpose) caused MILLIONS of dollars in damage on (just) Monday night. Had a curfew been put into effect on Monday, millions could have been saved -- and still allow for all the peaceful demonstration Baltimore wanted during the day.

    Personally, I don't have such a tenuous grasp on my civil rights that I am appalled by curfews when thugs are trying to burn down the city and steal every chance they get. You?


    Thank you, Quazi!

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    Re: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Benjamin Franklin - "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
    See my siggy.
    Huntsman / Kasich 2020
    Then: "Any child can grow up to be President."
    Now: "Any child can be President."

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    Re: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    See my siggy.
    Actually, old Ben works against my point, but I like your siggy.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: Can government use curfews & other restrictions to outlaw peaceful protests?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The government has used declaring curfews, establishing "protest areas" as the only place protesters may be, requiring a permit to have a protest gathering or march, and other rules that effectively criminal peaceful protests by which the police may arrest and criminally prosecute all protesters - and anyone who does not agree they can be basically placed under house arrest at night.

    Curfews for adults is a very different set of issues for adults than it is for children.

    There are other questions such as having an inherent right to be in public, as opposed to basically under house arrest every night in your own home.

    I would imagine bars are none too happy with a 10 pm curfew nor are companies and employees of night shifts.

    Is a curfew, "designated protest area," and a requirement to obtain permits for a protest rally or march legitimate? Unconstitutional? Good ideas?
    SCOTUS has ruled that time and place restrictions by the government are constitutional. The government just can't discriminate based on content or viewpoint. I support the need for a permit since the government does not have the right to restrict based on viewpoint/content.

    I think it is a good idea to limit the time and place of protests. Look at the people during the Ferguson incident who sat in the middle of a highway blocking traffic in protest. I don't want to give people the right to do something that asinine and unproductive.

    Curfews I think are okay in the event of riots. However, there has to be a imminent need for the curfew in my opinion.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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