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Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

Up or Down?

  • Thumbs Up

    Votes: 31 68.9%
  • Thumbs Down

    Votes: 14 31.1%

  • Total voters
    45

Luke Skywalker

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My current girlfriend dragged me to an AA meeting tonight. To be honest, I've never heard so much BS in my entire life. Alcoholism a disease? *Scoff* In my opinion, it's very simple - don't drink and you won't become a drunken ***h***e. More specifically, ever heard of the "steering wheel" concept? Keep your hands on the wheel and don't turn into those convenience store parking lots. It's that simple.

Furthermore, these people (cult members - from my perspective) say that if you don't work the 12 steps, you will either die, go to jail or a mental institution. Guess what? I left AA in a huff over 20 years ago and still am alive, happy and free. Furthermore, all my old AA "friends" are either dead (most of them are dead - young or old at the time I knew them), in prison or in mental hospitals. I have News: AA does not work and is nothing more than a cult! And I'm living proof of that, being that I'm still around :lol: - if my niece or another family member ever has any problems with alcohol/drugs, the last thing I'm doing is sending them to AA.

AA - what a waste of time. I spent two or three years going to them stupid meetings, working the steps, serving on committees, sponsoring others - I found AA at 19 and left at 23 in disgust (haven't been back since until tonight).

I couldn't take it any longer: When it came my turn to share in the meeting, I said just about everything I just posted. You should have seen the looks on their faces. :lol::lol::lol:

AA - A Big thumbs down and screw those people.
 
They're a self-supported group. I see relatively little reason for hostility toward them.

Do you prefer taxpayer-subsidized alcohol treatment, hospital-based detoxification, public safety escorting them to emergency rooms to be medically cleared for transfer to a state-funded jail's drunk tank? There is a vast array of extremely expensive interventions for substance abusers and addicts. If you want to criticize what exists for such people to drop their habit/addiction/disease/whatever-you-want-to-call-it, the Anonymous groups are the last place you want to start.
 
My current girlfriend dragged me to an AA meeting tonight. To be honest, I've never heard so much BS in my entire life. Alcoholism a disease? *Scoff* In my opinion, it's very simple - don't drink and you won't become a drunken ***h***e. More specifically, ever heard of the "steering wheel" concept? Keep your hands on the wheel and don't turn into those convenience store parking lots. It's that simple.

Furthermore, these people (cult members - from my perspective) say that if you don't work the 12 steps, you will either die, go to jail or a mental institution. Guess what? I left AA in a huff over 20 years ago and still am alive, happy and free. Furthermore, all my old AA "friends" are either dead (most of them are dead - young or old at the time I knew them), in prison or in mental hospitals. I have News: AA does not work and is nothing more than a cult! And I'm living proof of that, being that I'm still around :lol: - if my niece or another family member ever has any problems with alcohol/drugs, the last thing I'm doing is sending them to AA.

AA - what a waste of time. I spent two or three years going to them stupid meetings, working the steps, serving on committees, sponsoring others - I found AA at 19 and left at 23 in disgust (haven't been back since until tonight).

I couldn't take it any longer: When it came my turn to share in the meeting, I said just about everything I just posted. You should have seen the looks on their faces. :lol::lol::lol:

AA - A Big thumbs down and screw those people.

If it helps keep others sober and happy, who are the **** are you to condemn them?
 
I think it obviously works for some people and doesn't for others. If someone has a drinking problem and they want help, they have to find what will work for them and obviously AA works for a lot of people.
 
They're a self-supported group. I see relatively little reason for hostility toward them.

Do you prefer taxpayer-subsidized alcohol treatment, hospital-based detoxification, public safety escorting them to emergency rooms to be medically cleared for transfer to a state-funded jail's drunk tank? There is a vast array of extremely expensive interventions for substance abusers and addicts. If you want to criticize what exists for such people to drop their habit/addiction/disease/whatever-you-want-to-call-it, the Anonymous groups are the last place you want to start.

oh **** you and you're good points.

:lol:

I had my own problems once upon a time... AA/NA wasn't worth a damn to me... I had a few negative experiences with the AA folks/programs.
( to be fair, my personality was the bigger problem than the AA folks)

...but it does work for some, and that's a good thing.
 
They're a self-supported group. I see relatively little reason for hostility toward them.

Do you prefer taxpayer-subsidized alcohol treatment, hospital-based detoxification, public safety escorting them to emergency rooms to be medically cleared for transfer to a state-funded jail's drunk tank? There is a vast array of extremely expensive interventions for substance abusers and addicts. If you want to criticize what exists for such people to drop their habit/addiction/disease/whatever-you-want-to-call-it, the Anonymous groups are the last place you want to start.

Did I mention that the Sith were my heroes in Star Wars?

If not, Will reveal myself now:

I am Darth Vader (formerly known as Anakin Skywalker). Sith = ME and my master. AA = Jedi. Get it now?

 
I think it obviously works for some people and doesn't for others. If someone has a drinking problem and they want help, they have to find what will work for them and obviously AA works for a lot of people.

This. AA won't work for every one, but they do help many, and any group that helps people beat addiction is ok in my book.
 
I think it obviously works for some people and doesn't for others. If someone has a drinking problem and they want help, they have to find what will work for them and obviously AA works for a lot of people.

In general I agree. But AA has become the "go to" group for legal stuff.

By this I mean - a friend of a friend had drinking problems. Bad. She lost her license to do physical therapy. She sobered up; was sober for a couple years; applied to get her license back. She was told she'd have to attend AA meetings daily for 90 days. (She also was on the hook to call in every day to see if she needed to give a pee test - which in our rural community meant she had to travel at least an hour each way, which would not have made it easy to get a job. There was some other stuff too)

But seriously? 90 AA meetings in 90 days? what does that prove?

She ended up just giving up on physical therapy - which she was good at - and looking for other work -which she hasn't found yet.
 
If it helps keep others sober and happy, who are the **** are you to condemn them?

Most of the "new recruits" are young and court ordered. Typical college age-- reckless mistake-- but brainwashed to believe "they have a disease" that is "lifelong!"

Talk about job security...:roll:

AA/NA do at least as much harm as they do "good."
 
My current girlfriend dragged me to an AA meeting tonight. To be honest, I've never heard so much BS in my entire life. Alcoholism a disease? *Scoff* In my opinion, it's very simple - don't drink and you won't become a drunken ***h***e. More specifically, ever heard of the "steering wheel" concept? Keep your hands on the wheel and don't turn into those convenience store parking lots. It's that simple.

Furthermore, these people (cult members - from my perspective) say that if you don't work the 12 steps, you will either die, go to jail or a mental institution. Guess what? I left AA in a huff over 20 years ago and still am alive, happy and free. Furthermore, all my old AA "friends" are either dead (most of them are dead - young or old at the time I knew them), in prison or in mental hospitals. I have News: AA does not work and is nothing more than a cult! And I'm living proof of that, being that I'm still around :lol: - if my niece or another family member ever has any problems with alcohol/drugs, the last thing I'm doing is sending them to AA.

AA - what a waste of time. I spent two or three years going to them stupid meetings, working the steps, serving on committees, sponsoring others - I found AA at 19 and left at 23 in disgust (haven't been back since until tonight).

I couldn't take it any longer: When it came my turn to share in the meeting, I said just about everything I just posted. You should have seen the looks on their faces. :lol::lol::lol:

AA - A Big thumbs down and screw those people.

I watched a segment on AA just a short while ago, and in finding the link I also see a few other interesting ones as to it's effectiveness as well as the hold AA has on the judicial system as well as the hearts and minds of the gp.

Does Alcoholics Anonymous really work? | MSNBC
 
This. AA won't work for every one, but they do help many, and any group that helps people beat addiction is ok in my book.

What if the group helps people beat addiction at a cost of $4.5 million per addict? They okay in your book?

Cost is a criterion that should not be overlooked. This particular group helps an enormous number of people at a miniscule cost to non-addicts. This group should be celebrated wildly for this simple fact alone.
 
My current girlfriend dragged me to an AA meeting tonight. To be honest, I've never heard so much BS in my entire life. Alcoholism a disease? *Scoff* In my opinion, it's very simple - don't drink and you won't become a drunken ***h***e. More specifically, ever heard of the "steering wheel" concept? Keep your hands on the wheel and don't turn into those convenience store parking lots. It's that simple.

Furthermore, these people (cult members - from my perspective) say that if you don't work the 12 steps, you will either die, go to jail or a mental institution. Guess what? I left AA in a huff over 20 years ago and still am alive, happy and free. Furthermore, all my old AA "friends" are either dead (most of them are dead - young or old at the time I knew them), in prison or in mental hospitals. I have News: AA does not work and is nothing more than a cult! And I'm living proof of that, being that I'm still around :lol: - if my niece or another family member ever has any problems with alcohol/drugs, the last thing I'm doing is sending them to AA.

AA - what a waste of time. I spent two or three years going to them stupid meetings, working the steps, serving on committees, sponsoring others - I found AA at 19 and left at 23 in disgust (haven't been back since until tonight).

I couldn't take it any longer: When it came my turn to share in the meeting, I said just about everything I just posted. You should have seen the looks on their faces. :lol::lol::lol:

AA - A Big thumbs down and screw those people.

This post is an excellent example of the exception proves the rule fallacy.

I know tons of people who have gone through AA and are alive, clean, and happy and many have been for long periods of time... decades. I've also know plenty who rejected AA. Many of them are dead or in jail. AA has been shown to work, but as substance abuse is a very difficult ILLNESS to treat, relapse happens regardless of treatment. Oh, and as a psychotherapist. I send MANY people to AA, and most have very positive experiences there, and remaining in the program is a good indication of success in recovery.

I'm glad that you are doing well. But how you've gotten to where you are has ZERO to do with how anyone else, does. You want to condemn AA because it didn't work for you, that's all well and good. But it is not your place to judge whether it works for anyone else. Of that, you are have no knowledge. And you seem to have very little understanding of the addictive process, either
 
My current girlfriend dragged me to an AA meeting tonight. To be honest, I've never heard so much BS in my entire life. Alcoholism a disease? *Scoff* In my opinion, it's very simple - don't drink and you won't become a drunken ***h***e. More specifically, ever heard of the "steering wheel" concept? Keep your hands on the wheel and don't turn into those convenience store parking lots. It's that simple.

Furthermore, these people (cult members - from my perspective) say that if you don't work the 12 steps, you will either die, go to jail or a mental institution. Guess what? I left AA in a huff over 20 years ago and still am alive, happy and free. Furthermore, all my old AA "friends" are either dead (most of them are dead - young or old at the time I knew them), in prison or in mental hospitals. I have News: AA does not work and is nothing more than a cult! And I'm living proof of that, being that I'm still around :lol: - if my niece or another family member ever has any problems with alcohol/drugs, the last thing I'm doing is sending them to AA.

AA - what a waste of time. I spent two or three years going to them stupid meetings, working the steps, serving on committees, sponsoring others - I found AA at 19 and left at 23 in disgust (haven't been back since until tonight).

I couldn't take it any longer: When it came my turn to share in the meeting, I said just about everything I just posted. You should have seen the looks on their faces. :lol::lol::lol:

AA - A Big thumbs down and screw those people.

Now to respond more directly. I don't have a problem with Alcoholism being a medical condition, though I'd hesitate to use the word disease. More akin to a mental health issue, an inability to say no to certain temptations (here I'm going into addiction as a whole, but they have AA type for nearly everything so I think we can do that). I would expect AA works about as well as any group therapy, for some very well, for others' not so much. I think that depends on whether you're a person who prefers individuality or camaraderie.

My personal opinion of them based solely on what I've seen on tv and read about them, having never attended one, it seems like a whole lot of "poor me," and not enough pulling up the britches and finding solutions. I feel that way about most psychological solutions, too much looking back and not enough solid planning skill learning for tomorrow, and the day after.

In my opinion, they need to be role playing and things like that to learn how to handle those temptations regardless of how or why they have the addictions. I could care less why I have PTSD, okay that's not true, but I do know why, we all do, some of it's rational some not, but what I want when I'm having issues is answers, not answers from my past, or answers about the world. I want to learn and practice til I'm super comfortable with how to walk away, or how to handle without getting anxious, or practice not ducking everytime a man raises his hand... practical stuff.

Some people claim to need all the emotional upheaval of places like AA, but I just have never understood how it ever actually helps outside of it the comrade in misery and recovery aspect.
 
Now to respond more directly. I don't have a problem with Alcoholism being a medical condition, though I'd hesitate to use the word disease. More akin to a mental health issue, an inability to say no to certain temptations (here I'm going into addiction as a whole, but they have AA type for nearly everything so I think we can do that). I would expect AA works about as well as any group therapy, for some very well, for others' not so much. I think that depends on whether you're a person who prefers individuality or camaraderie.

My personal opinion of them based solely on what I've seen on tv and read about them, having never attended one, it seems like a whole lot of "poor me," and not enough pulling up the britches and finding solutions. I feel that way about most psychological solutions, too much looking back and not enough solid planning skill learning for tomorrow, and the day after.

In my opinion, they need to be role playing and things like that to learn how to handle those temptations regardless of how or why they have the addictions. I could care less why I have PTSD, okay that's not true, but I do know why, we all do, some of it's rational some not, but what I want when I'm having issues is answers, not answers from my past, or answers about the world. I want to learn and practice til I'm super comfortable with how to walk away, or how to handle without getting anxious, or practice not ducking everytime a man raises his hand... practical stuff.

Some people claim to need all the emotional upheaval of places like AA, but I just have never understood how it ever actually helps outside of it the comrade in misery and recovery aspect.

Attend an open AA meeting or two. You'll find out your assessment that it's a lot of "poor me" is quite far from the truth.
 
They're a self-supported group. I see relatively little reason for hostility toward them.

Do you prefer taxpayer-subsidized alcohol treatment, hospital-based detoxification, public safety escorting them to emergency rooms to be medically cleared for transfer to a state-funded jail's drunk tank? There is a vast array of extremely expensive interventions for substance abusers and addicts. If you want to criticize what exists for such people to drop their habit/addiction/disease/whatever-you-want-to-call-it, the Anonymous groups are the last place you want to start.

I'm not so sure they really are so self-supporting. The courts sure seem to force a whole lot of people into it. That's not self-supportive. Anyway, there's a link in my post just a couple posts above. It was eye opening.
 
Attend an open AA meeting or two. You'll find out your assessment that it's a lot of "poor me" is quite far from the truth.

I have no reason to, I have the least addictive personality of anyone I know. I don't drink, I don't gamble, I don't do drugs,... I'm a control freak, addiction just doesn't fit with that personality trait.
 
I have no reason to, I have the least addictive personality of anyone I know. I don't drink, I don't gamble, I don't do drugs,... I'm a control freak, addiction just doesn't fit with that personality trait.

Open meetings can be attended by anyone... addict or no. Some folks will go because they know someone who is in AA and they want to understand things better. Some go because it interests them. Only closed meetings can be attended by addicts.
 
I'm not so sure they really are so self-supporting. The courts sure seem to force a whole lot of people into it. That's not self-supportive.

They don't profit or even employ workers to any significant degree as a result of judicial system referrals, so compared to most psychiatric and substance abuse providers (who receive grant funding, Medicaid and Medicare reimbursement, insurance reimbursement, etc.), Anonymous groups are indeed self-supporting by almost any standard.

Harbor criticism for the tools/programs via which substance-abusing/addicted people address their issues? So be it, but attack the Anonymous groups last of all.
 
They don't profit or even employ workers to any significant degree as a result of judicial system referrals, so compared to most psychiatric and substance abuse providers (who receive grant funding, Medicaid and Medicare reimbursement, insurance reimbursement, etc.), Anonymous groups are indeed self-supporting by almost any standard.

Harbor criticism for the tools/programs via which substance-abusing/addicted people address their issues? So be it, but attack the Anonymous groups last of all.

Sorry, but because of the hold they have on government via court ordered AA meetings, they are at the top of my list, where they will remain. People are not all the same and should not be forced into a cookie cutter system.
 
Odd, AA/NA did wonders for my brother who is nearing his 1 year of sobriety thanks to AA/NA. Congrats on your own sobriety but can you not insult a system that's done a lot more harm than good over the years?
 
My current girlfriend dragged me to an AA meeting tonight. To be honest, I've never heard so much BS in my entire life. Alcoholism a disease? *Scoff* In my opinion, it's very simple - don't drink and you won't become a drunken ***h***e. More specifically, ever heard of the "steering wheel" concept? Keep your hands on the wheel and don't turn into those convenience store parking lots. It's that simple.

Furthermore, these people (cult members - from my perspective) say that if you don't work the 12 steps, you will either die, go to jail or a mental institution. Guess what? I left AA in a huff over 20 years ago and still am alive, happy and free. Furthermore, all my old AA "friends" are either dead (most of them are dead - young or old at the time I knew them), in prison or in mental hospitals. I have News: AA does not work and is nothing more than a cult! And I'm living proof of that, being that I'm still around :lol: - if my niece or another family member ever has any problems with alcohol/drugs, the last thing I'm doing is sending them to AA.

AA - what a waste of time. I spent two or three years going to them stupid meetings, working the steps, serving on committees, sponsoring others - I found AA at 19 and left at 23 in disgust (haven't been back since until tonight).

I couldn't take it any longer: When it came my turn to share in the meeting, I said just about everything I just posted. You should have seen the looks on their faces. :lol::lol::lol:

AA - A Big thumbs down and screw those people.

If it helps?
 
There is nothing wrong with a self help group, but I feel it has become something of a pseudo religion in the US (or at least that is how their booklet reads and their meetings sound).

I used to be addicted to gambling. I hit rock bottom before I went to the group. I went together with my mother (was still living at home). I sat in the group of gambling addicts and my mother sat in with the group of family/loved ones of the gambling addicts. Where I was being told about how I could try to stay away from gambling and what I should and should not do (give my bankcard to my mother, give my passport to my mother, give my wallet to my mother). And I was told that I cold ask for a voluntary house ban at the local gambling businesses and how I should do other things to not fall in the trap of boredom and falling back into gambling.

My mother was on the other side being informed about how she should keep my bank card until I had proven I was able to handle small amounts of money and had shown improvement. She was giving invaluable information from the people who had gone through it before. About the warning sings I would be giving off if I were about to fall off the straight and narrow.

There was no twelve step program, no religious things, no admitting that we were powerless and should throw ourselves at the mercy of a higher power, etc. etc. etc.

All we did was talk, support each other and only the leader (or one or two assistant leaders) should be called if a member got into trouble and needed support. For the rest we met up weekly to give each other moral support, etc. etc. etc.

Not to be too negative about AA, but maybe they should stop with the higher power and apologizing to everybody and put the energy into trying to restructure their lives into a live without ever using alcohol. Maybe even giving away their bank cards in the beginning to make sure they cannot fall back.

For the rest I cannot fault the wish of AA to help others but they should be a bit less superior about it and stop looking for power from outside themselves and start looking for it from the inside.
 
It's not for everyone, and I don't like the fact that people get court orders to go to AA meetings, but it does help some people, so it's not all bad.
 
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