Thread: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

Originally Posted by Peter King

court ordered AA will never work.

As a psychotherapist, I have worked with addicts for 25 years. I cannot remember one time where an addict choose to get help without some form of consequences or order.

Originally Posted by Mason66

You would think at some point in 30 years they would become strong enough to live their lives without the crutch.

It's no crutch. It's assistance for a fairly significant disorder.

Originally Posted by DA60

Just as it is not your place to judge whether those people you say were helped by AA could not have gotten better without it.

I was a drug addict (crack cocaine - quit in 2002) and I cleaned up on my own (I went to CA meetings - AA's sister organization - and they were worse then useless for me). It is the only way to truly quit.

If the only reason you quit something is because some group or organization helped you quit and you continue to use that organization...then does that mean that if that group ceases to exist that you will fall off the wagon? Then you have not truly quit.

Quitting means you do so AND maintain that sobriety ON YOUR OWN. If you need an outside entity (organization, methadone, etc.) to stay sober/clean...then you have not quit. You are just in remission. And you have replaced one addiction with a different one.

And that means that you have not come to grips with the underlying reasons for your addiction. Instead of learning to walk, you use a crutch.

So these people that you know that still go to AA meetings have not quit...they are just addicts in remission.


I looked at my life, looked at myself, realized what I was doing and why and decided to quit...on my own. It is the only way you can ever be close to certain that you are truly free.


Now, if those programs keep these people sober...fine. But I have been to those meetings. And I know that those organizations AA/CA ARE Christian recruitment groups...period. And that is my problem with AA/CA. That they prey on people's weaknesses to get people into the God-club.

There is no reason that an organization that does not have a Christian agenda could not do the same thing.


And to those that say they 'need' these organizations? I say that you have not looked at yourself hard enough if you say that. Because the reason you do these things is within you. And until you understand that reason, you will never truly be free of your addiction.
Unfortunately, addicts usually like the easy way out (no insult intended - I did/do it too), so doing something as long and hard as true self-analyzation is not something that comes easy to addicted people. Escaping is their thing, not self-reflecting.

You obviously don't understand the concept of AA, of recovery, or of addiction. You didn't "quit". No one does. It's not a crutch. It assistance to remain in recovery from a serious disorder.

And as far as it being a "Christian recruitment" group, the only folks I've ever heard who've said that are militant atheists who really don't understand AA. The "higher power" doesn't have to mean a deity. I can give several examples of people who I knew who used something completely different as their "higher power". AA often gets criticized for using "God", but there are meetings that omit the higher power from it's literature.

Originally Posted by Nightrider

Hi CC,

I respect what you do for a living and (being that you are arguably the most intelligent person here on the forum) I'm not going to try to dispute anything you post. I respect you too much for that - it's that simple.

I do (before signing off for the day) want to tell you how I'm doing and what I'm doing these days to get better:

1) My meds have been significantly reduced - I'm almost off them entirely. The more I tap into my inner "God," - instead of believing that God exists apart from my soul (hence, duality - please read what I posted about that in this thread) - the more I get better.

2) All of my doctors are on board with me and support my attitude of AA.

3) They *my doctors, that is* see no evidence of any form of psychosis or even neurosis - and haven't for a long time (years, that is).

4) I intend to write a book on my experiences and my a couple of my doctors have agreed to write the introduction.

Lastly, thanks for all you do to help others - I admire you and all your posts on this forum (sometimes - especially the posts I least agree with you on).

I wish you the best - may the wind be always at your back on fair and calm seas.

Out.

I am very happy to hear you are doing better. From my experience, there are two kinds of AA meetings. The first are the dogmatic with no flexibility and with many punishing rules. The second are more flexible and understand that "not one size fits all" even when it comes to addicts. Currently in my caseload. I am treating several clients with depression. Under no circumstances to I treat them using the same techniques and types of psychotherapy. These are people, not examples in a textbook. Not all AA meetings are the dogmatic ones that some folks are describing. If I hear a client describe their experience at a meeting like that, I tell them to try a different meeting. An AA meeting that tells it's members that they can't take meds is a meeting to be avoided, for example.

AA doesn't work for everyone. It is neither the only roadmap for success from addiction, nor is it a crutch or a preventative for recovery.

Originally Posted by Removable Mind

I have 29 plus years of sobriety, which would not have happened without AA.

Although I'm retired, I am a degreed, credentialed professional who has significant hours of study in the field of chemical dependency. I've spent some of my professional years working with kids who had significant problems associated with dependency issues - and many of them participated with one or more parent who also had alcohol/drug addictions.

Oddly enough, a lot of people who are plague with a dual diagnosis (mental disabilities/illnesses along with alcohol/drug dependencies) have substantially benefited by AA.

Thanks...





Thanks....

I don't do a lot of chemical dependency therapy anymore, but working almost primarily with teenagers, dual diagnoses invariably occur. Thanks for what you shared and for helping those that you have.

Originally Posted by Nightrider

I apologize for this, to any that were offended. I'm in no way a "Vader." LS was always my favorite - at least when I was a little kid. But I wasn't in a great mood last night, so I understand anyone whom didn't appreciate the post below. Thanks to all who responded in this thread - I guess if AA works for a lot of people, it can't be that bad. Where I went to meetings in Miami as a 20 year old, there were a lot of sexual predators in those meetings (but, was it "real" AA? - perhaps another topic) - won't go into detail as to why I hated those people, but one can probably read between the lines what I'm saying.

Anyway, I apologize to all recovering Alcoholics for what I've said in this thread - and to the people whom still actively drink. AA isn't for everyone, but it can help.

Thanks for reading.

"Reading between the lines" that was AWFUL for you. That is an excellent example of AA meetings to avoid at all costs, and I can understand your feelings towards AA. Not all meetings are like that. But this does bring up one of AA's failings. No real centralized management. I understand why... anonymity and all. But it does make it difficult to weed out the bad apples.

Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy

As a psychotherapist, I have worked with addicts for 25 years. I cannot remember one time where an addict choose to get help without some form of consequences or order.

Know you have met me. I was mentally rock bottom and that caused me to accept help and work towards my beating my addiction.

And I am not talking about drugs, I am talking purely about alcohol and gambling. With drugs there is a need for consequences or order because there is so much of a chemical need to force someone to accept help in drugs that is much less prevalent in gambling and alcohol. At least that is my opinion.

Originally Posted by Peter King

Know you have met me. I was mentally rock bottom and that caused me to accept help and work towards my beating my addiction.

And I am not talking about drugs, I am talking purely about alcohol and gambling. With drugs there is a need for consequences or order because there is so much of a chemical need to force someone to accept help in drugs that is much less prevalent in gambling and alcohol. At least that is my opinion.

My guess is that your rock bottom yielded consequences. Perhaps you were going to lose your house... or your job... or your wife... or your family... or were going to go to jail... or your health... or something else. Without the threat of consequences, there would be no reason to stop.