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Thread: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

  1. #31
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    AA does work for a lot of people. A former brother-in-law of mine has been very active in AA for 30+ years. It took being gutted and left to die in a bar ditch for him to commit to sobriety. For him, I think this has meant daily meetings for years. AA is how he met his now long-time wife too, and AA is their big thing. It's almost like a pseudo-religion for them. They're very happy and grateful for the purpose in their lives and the opportunity to help others, so I say live and let live.
    You would think at some point in 30 years they would become strong enough to live their lives without the crutch.

  2. #32
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    I say thumbs up on AA.

    If it keeps addicts off the street thereby not creating problems for good people, that is a good thing

  3. #33
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    I have never been to AA, but I went to their sister organization CA (Cocaine Anonymous). Same type of program. Similar 12 steps.

    I went to three-four meetings and found them a complete waste of time. After the last one, I went out and got high.

    IMO AA and CA are little more then Christian recruitment groups, doing what Christian groups do...prey on the weak to try and boost their memberships.

    Here are CA's 12 steps. Read them and tell me this is not a Christian recruitment organization:


    'The 12 Steps and the 12 Traditions of Cocaine Anonymous


    The Twelve Steps describe the Program of Recovery used by Cocaine Anonymous

    We admitted we were powerless over cocaine and all other mind-altering substances — that our lives had become unmanageable.
    Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
    Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
    Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
    Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
    Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
    Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
    Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
    Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
    Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
    Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
    Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to addicts, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.'


    http://www.ca.org/12and12.html

    Hey, if they work for you...power to you.

    But, to me, they are almost useless.
    Last edited by DA60; 05-02-15 at 11:00 AM.
    'What kind of sick and twisted toy factory is this?'
    'We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile, and nothing can grow there. Too much, the best of us is washed away.'
    "Better to be dead and cool, than alive and uncool."

  4. #34
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Alcohol addiction is a pathophysiological state... whether or not you like the word "disease," neither is "just stop drinking, morans!" at all helpful for anyone who has an addiction.

    I have seen increased criticism of AA in the past few years. I would say that if it helps some people, great. The ones who it doesn't, well, they can try something else.

  5. #35
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    I say thumbs up on AA.

    If it keeps addicts off the street thereby not creating problems for good people, that is a good thing
    Good people?

    So no addict is a 'good people'?

    Noted.
    Last edited by DA60; 05-02-15 at 11:10 AM.
    'What kind of sick and twisted toy factory is this?'
    'We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile, and nothing can grow there. Too much, the best of us is washed away.'
    "Better to be dead and cool, than alive and uncool."

  6. #36
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    This post is an excellent example of the exception proves the rule fallacy.

    I know tons of people who have gone through AA and are alive, clean, and happy and many have been for long periods of time... decades. I've also know plenty who rejected AA. Many of them are dead or in jail. AA has been shown to work, but as substance abuse is a very difficult ILLNESS to treat, relapse happens regardless of treatment. Oh, and as a psychotherapist. I send MANY people to AA, and most have very positive experiences there, and remaining in the program is a good indication of success in recovery.

    I'm glad that you are doing well. But how you've gotten to where you are has ZERO to do with how anyone else, does. You want to condemn AA because it didn't work for you, that's all well and good. But it is not your place to judge whether it works for anyone else. Of that, you are have no knowledge. And you seem to have very little understanding of the addictive process, either
    Just as it is not your place to judge whether those people you say were helped by AA could not have gotten better without it.

    I was a drug addict (crack cocaine - quit in 2002) and I cleaned up on my own (I went to CA meetings - AA's sister organization - and they were worse then useless for me). It is the only way to truly quit.

    If the only reason you quit something is because some group or organization helped you quit and you continue to use that organization...then does that mean that if that group ceases to exist that you will fall off the wagon? Then you have not truly quit.

    Quitting means you do so AND maintain that sobriety ON YOUR OWN. If you need an outside entity (organization, methadone, etc.) to stay sober/clean...then you have not quit. You are just in remission. And you have replaced one addiction with a different one.

    And that means that you have not come to grips with the underlying reasons for your addiction. Instead of learning to walk, you use a crutch.

    So these people that you know that still go to AA meetings have not quit...they are just addicts in remission.


    I looked at my life, looked at myself, realized what I was doing and why and decided to quit...on my own. It is the only way you can ever be close to certain that you are truly free.


    Now, if those programs keep these people sober...fine. But I have been to those meetings. And I know that those organizations AA/CA ARE Christian recruitment groups...period. And that is my problem with AA/CA. That they prey on people's weaknesses to get people into the God-club.

    There is no reason that an organization that does not have a Christian agenda could not do the same thing.


    And to those that say they 'need' these organizations? I say that you have not looked at yourself hard enough if you say that. Because the reason you do these things is within you. And until you understand that reason, you will never truly be free of your addiction.
    Unfortunately, addicts usually like the easy way out (no insult intended - I did/do it too), so doing something as long and hard as true self-analyzation is not something that comes easy to addicted people. Escaping is their thing, not self-reflecting.
    Last edited by DA60; 05-02-15 at 11:33 AM.
    'What kind of sick and twisted toy factory is this?'
    'We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile, and nothing can grow there. Too much, the best of us is washed away.'
    "Better to be dead and cool, than alive and uncool."

  7. #37
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    For many years I had my own problems with Alcohol, I wasn't happy if I didn't have at least 2 six packs in the frig and I usually bought it by case. I had my own frig in the garage to store it. Eventually I grew out of the addiction and I haven't had a beer in several years. I never considered AA but one time my wife called them on me. Me and my two bothers had problems with alcohol and eventually beat it. One of my brothers went to AA and it seemed to help him, but the other it didn't. I think it works for some and not others, that's the way life is as there is no such thing as cure that will help everyone.


  8. #38
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Good people?

    So no addict is a 'good people'?

    Noted.
    Good.

  9. #39
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrider View Post
    My current girlfriend dragged me to an AA meeting tonight. To be honest, I've never heard so much BS in my entire life. Alcoholism a disease? *Scoff* In my opinion, it's very simple - don't drink and you won't become a drunken ***h***e. More specifically, ever heard of the "steering wheel" concept? Keep your hands on the wheel and don't turn into those convenience store parking lots. It's that simple.

    Furthermore, these people (cult members - from my perspective) say that if you don't work the 12 steps, you will either die, go to jail or a mental institution. Guess what? I left AA in a huff over 20 years ago and still am alive, happy and free. Furthermore, all my old AA "friends" are either dead (most of them are dead - young or old at the time I knew them), in prison or in mental hospitals. I have News: AA does not work and is nothing more than a cult! And I'm living proof of that, being that I'm still around - if my niece or another family member ever has any problems with alcohol/drugs, the last thing I'm doing is sending them to AA.

    AA - what a waste of time. I spent two or three years going to them stupid meetings, working the steps, serving on committees, sponsoring others - I found AA at 19 and left at 23 in disgust (haven't been back since until tonight).

    I couldn't take it any longer: When it came my turn to share in the meeting, I said just about everything I just posted. You should have seen the looks on their faces.

    AA - A Big thumbs down and screw those people.
    I agree 100%. As my brother told me when I was trying to quit crack cocaine back in 2000...'you will quit it when you want to badly enough'. He was dead right (though that is a simplistic viewpoint I finally did in 2002, btw...on my own).

    People throw that title on it to try and wrap it up in a neat little package. It's a disease...which means it is curable...which means the rest of the masses do not have to worry about it.


    It's like drug rehab places. The success rate of those places is incredibly low (how many times do you hear a celeb going to one and then quickly getting caught doing it again? Lots I imagine).
    But the masses love them because they just tell themselves that if Joe just goes to one, they will clean him up...all nice and tidy and simple. Nonsense.
    Joe's problems started long before he did drugs. And rehab cannot change the fact his parents abused him or ignored him or whatever the demon/pain that Joe is trying to escape from is. Joe has to deal with that one. And only Joe can fix that problem.
    Btw, IMO, rehab works for only two types of people...1) the type that love to be told what to do - but most addicts are not that type. They are, in my experience, usually the opposite. And 2) the type that are binging like mad and are completely out of control and just need somewhere to stop them for a while.
    I have found almost everyone else does not find long term help from rehab places...which is probably most addicts.


    When people think of disease, they think of something that can be cured by drugs or treatments.

    Addictions are almost always NOT that way. These are people (for the most part - I cannot speak for you) who want/need to escape their pain. And the fastest/easiest/only way they know is their drug of choice...be it booze, drugs, gambling, sex, work, food, pornography, etc..
    They are complicated issues that almost always cannot be fixed by a drug or a treatment 'program'.

    Alcoholism is NOT a disease...it is (usually) a symptom of an underlying problem.
    Last edited by DA60; 05-02-15 at 11:53 AM.
    'What kind of sick and twisted toy factory is this?'
    'We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile, and nothing can grow there. Too much, the best of us is washed away.'
    "Better to be dead and cool, than alive and uncool."

  10. #40
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Some interesting replies in this thread. One thing I have a problem with is AA's insistence that one needs a "higher power" in order to get better. From my experience, a lot of AA's indeed make AA itself their higher power - hence, that's where the word cult comes into play.

    I was one of those that made AA my higher power - it was the most screwed up thing I ever did. It's taken me nearly 20 years to undo the damage that AA did to me.

    Look, the bible says this: "God created man in his image." What that means is that I (as are all humans) am God. The bible goes on to say, "There is no God but me." That is I, the soul of the individual. "Be still and know that I am God." Again, the same point.

    Duality (the belief that there is a God or power apart from the soul of the individual) is the only devil, from my experience. AA teaches anything but that.

    From AA's perspective (as well as Christianity's), I am a "heathen" of sorts - an agnostic or even an atheist from their perspective. Little do they know, their lack of understanding where "God" is really found makes them ignorant, if not stupid.

    I haven't been drunk in over 20 years. I drink occasionally, but only in moderation. That's another thing AA says that I would not be able to do - MEANWHILE, the ones whom told me that (including most of my former sponsors) are pushing up daises.

    Less that 1% of the people whom go to AA end up staying "sober" for the rest of their lives - I would hardly call that a successful program.

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