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Thread: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

  1. #221
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    If I'm at a public function where alcohol flows freely and I'm asked if I want a drink. I simply reply, "No thanks" (and no reason is necessary for not accepting). If I'm pressured by someone, I'll say, "If I have just one drink, I get deathly ill, but thank you for offering anyway." Most let it go.
    My response if "No thanks" doesn't work, is a reasonably curt: "I don't drink".

    I've never had it go further than that (in 20 yrs).
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

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  2. #222
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Doesn't matter what you think of AA. Your girl thought you needed help. You should probably look at your life. Good luck.
    Looking at my life is indeed what I've been doing.

    Thanks for the well wishes!

  3. #223
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I honestly have no idea about AA. Currently have a family member going through it, and he has seen improvements. But I also have heard many negative things about it. Honestly, the overwhelming majority of things I have heard have been negative. But that is not my biggest beef with the OP. My biggest disagreement is with alcoholism not being taken seriously as a disease. I know there are studies done on both side of this issue but does that mean we should not possibly let the consensus and study the issue further? Also does this mean we should not medically and psychologically treat the issue as a disease
    First of all - BEST wishes to that family member of yours!

    To address the rest of your post: My sponsor says I have a disease and that disease is indeed alcoholism. I have to listen to my sponsor.

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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Went to a meeting tonight and shared a little - helped a couple of newcomers.

    I'm about (Good Orderly Direction willing) to hit my 9th day sober. One day at a time - whomever gets up the earliest has the most time.

    Am taking the cotton out of my ears, sticking in my mouth and listening these days.

    My sponsor is a crusty old fart - am going to a meeting tomorrow morning (Good Orderly Direction willing).

    Sponsor tells me to "buckle my seat belt, because I'm in for a ride."

  5. #225
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I honestly have no idea about AA. Currently have a family member going through it, and he has seen improvements. But I also have heard many negative things about it. Honestly, the overwhelming majority of things I have heard have been negative. But that is not my biggest beef with the OP. My biggest disagreement is with alcoholism not being taken seriously as a disease. I know there are studies done on both side of this issue but does that mean we should not possibly let the consensus and study the issue further? Also does this mean we should not medically and psychologically treat the issue as a disease
    The disease model fits alcoholism well, because when studying alcoholism from a large sample-size it does appear to have a distinctive pathology (ultimately culminating in death). Experienced AA members will also recount this anecdotally, noting there is an underlying sameness to many of the individual stories, even if the details may differ.

    But here is the facet (to me) that takes away any doubt that alcoholism is a disease (and it's one of genetic pre-disposition):

    Firstly, a great many studies consistently have shown that children & siblings of alcoholics have much higher instances of alcoholism than the general population - this is undisputed. Additionally, there also have been many 'Twins' studies done, and it's been found that both paternal & fraternal twins also have a higher correlation to alcoholism than the general population (obviously, this is to be expected - they're siblings).

    But now comes the interesting part - an attempt could be made to argue that due to family physical proximity in these studies, these high incidents of alcoholism correlation could be due to environmental factors. So, in the past few decades there have been several studies done to 'Orphaned Twins", separated at birth from their mother, their families, & each other, and raised separately by non-alcoholics in non-alcoholic homes; and lo & behold! These separated at birth twins also showed the same increased correlation to alcoholism as those raised together with their natural families!

    If scientifically accurate (I have no reason to believe otherwise), the 'Orphaned Twins' studies are extremely telling.
    Last edited by Chomsky; 05-08-15 at 10:41 PM. Reason: clarification
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  6. #226
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrider View Post
    AA and psychiatric meds:

    Anyone have an opinion on this? I just got off the phone with my sponsor, whom wants me off my meds entirely - he says:

    1) Psychiatry can "shove it"

    2) When I go to AA meetings all "pilled up," I'm not really living and not really sober

    3) I need to talk to my doctor - if he does not agree with pulling me off my meds entirely, I should find another doctor

    4) He said I sounded drunk on the phone, like I was on drugs (which technically speaking, that's what psychiatric meds are)

    Sponsor has a point - will say that. When I spoke to him just now, my speech was slurred and my thinking process was very slow, having just woken up from a deep nap the instant he called (waking me up).

    I'm still waking up right now and my mind clearer. But, a few minutes ago, I was out of it. My life has more or less been this way since they put me on meds initially. It takes me several hours to fully wake up in the morning these days, for instance (and that's only, lol, after I've had about five cups of coffee).

    Thanks - will look forward to replies.
    There isn't a whole lot I feel comfortable saying. No one knows what drugs have been prescribed (and you shouldn't say), and even if we did can't possibly comment on whether they were appropriately prescribed. My only comment is I'd hesitate to take medical advice from an AA sponsor unless he's also your health care provider, and the advice "psychiatry can shove it" just might kill someone who needs psychiatric help, including medication.

    I volunteer for a charity that takes in homeless people, and it's 12 step based. 98% or so are addicted. Our FIRST priority for many new residents is getting them psychiatric care and back on appropriate meds. And the founder is one of those old timers, tough love types, etc. But what he knows from nearly 3 decades of treating low bottom drunks and addicts is you can't get them sober and teach them how to live as responsible citizens if there is an untreated mental illness. Treating that mental illness is therefore critical - nothing good long term is possible unless and until that is done. So knowing only what you've said, I think the advice you got from your sponsor was HIGHLY irresponsible. I hope we are missing a big part of the story.

    So I'd highly recommend your last comment in point 3) - don't ignore medical advice, but certainly if you're not comfortable on your current drugs, find another provider for second or third opinions.

  7. #227
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Have you ever derived income from counselling people about their alcohol/drug addictions (outside of AA)?

    Yes or no, please. No 12 page dissertation...just yes or no, please.
    Firstly, I'll respond in any way I choose. Secondly, I thought you were leaving. And thirdly, why do you want to know?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #228
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrider View Post
    I want to stress that for people whom can quit alcohol/drugs on their own, - without AA - you are my heroes and all the more power to you.

    As an addict/alcoholic and a "mentally ill" person as well, I am finding AA to be very helpful lately. AA is giving me the tools (a road map, that is) to be happy, joyous and free - I'm for all intents and purposes an "atheist," but call GOD Good Orderly Direction. That basic concept is helping me get through the steps.

    I have exactly one week sober now. I haven't felt this good in years and just landed a good job yesterday (as a direct result of working the steps). All AA wants to do is give me a good life - and get me out of the sheer hell I was living in. I'm meeting girls as well, though am going to focus on my recovery first - girls are a "danger zone" for me, as I always seem to go for the ones whom are sick (mentally). I tend to attract needy girls whom are clingy and obsessive - borderline stalkers. I don't need that. I hope - one day - to find a nice girl via AA, especially one who has been sober for a number of years and has her head screwed on straight. I don't want any more relationships that purely revolve around sex - I just want someone who cares and share hugs and stuff with. Someone to hold and cuddle with, in other words.
    Congratulations on one week of sobriety. That's great.

    Anyway, I intend to keep going to AA, one day at a time. I do have a question for anyone whom cares to answer at this point: "AA maintains anonymity at the level of press, radio and film." Does this forum count as "press?" I mean, am I jeopardizing my sobriety by continuing to post here? Because if I am, I don't want to do that.
    DP is not considered "press". You are not jeopardizing your sobriety by posting here unless you find that posting here is causing you issues that might affect your sobriety.

    AA also "has no opinion on outside issues." In other words, they are non-political, from what I gather that means. So, am I endangering my sobriety by continuing to post in a debate forum? - when the literature says to "resign from the debating society and quit bothering myself with what came first - the chicken or the egg."

    Anyone whom cares to respond to that is welcome to do so. Thanks in advance.

    In the meantime, I will either ask my sponsor this stuff and/or bring it up in a meeting.

    Thanks for reading.
    You are not jeopardizing your sobriety by posting here and discussing politics. The one thing you cannot do is say, "I believe in such-and-such political position because AA supports it". Individuals are, of course, allowed to have political positions, but AA as a whole, does not.

    Hope that helps.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #229
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrider View Post
    AA and psychiatric meds:

    Anyone have an opinion on this? I just got off the phone with my sponsor, whom wants me off my meds entirely - he says:

    1) Psychiatry can "shove it"

    2) When I go to AA meetings all "pilled up," I'm not really living and not really sober

    3) I need to talk to my doctor - if he does not agree with pulling me off my meds entirely, I should find another doctor

    4) He said I sounded drunk on the phone, like I was on drugs (which technically speaking, that's what psychiatric meds are)

    Sponsor has a point - will say that. When I spoke to him just now, my speech was slurred and my thinking process was very slow, having just woken up from a deep nap the instant he called (waking me up).

    I'm still waking up right now and my mind clearer. But, a few minutes ago, I was out of it. My life has more or less been this way since they put me on meds initially. It takes me several hours to fully wake up in the morning these days, for instance (and that's only, lol, after I've had about five cups of coffee).

    Thanks - will look forward to replies.
    There is no conflict between AA and psychiatric meds... unless the meds are potentially addictive. Many addicts also suffer from depression, anxiety, OCD, or other psychological disorders and medication can be very helpful for these issues. Without them, the potential for relapse may be higher. I know many recovering addicts who regularly take SSRI's for example. When it comes to meds that are potentially addictive, that is a bit trickier. Some say "OK" if one is under a strict doctor's care, and others would say "no way". It is important that you tell your doctor that you are an addict so he can choose your meds and adjust them accordingly. One thing... I can't stand black and white thinking. Things tend not to be like that. I'd suggest talking to your doctor about this.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #230
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrider View Post
    AA and psychiatric meds:

    Anyone have an opinion on this? I just got off the phone with my sponsor, whom wants me off my meds entirely - he says:

    1) Psychiatry can "shove it"

    2) When I go to AA meetings all "pilled up," I'm not really living and not really sober

    3) I need to talk to my doctor - if he does not agree with pulling me off my meds entirely, I should find another doctor

    4) He said I sounded drunk on the phone, like I was on drugs (which technically speaking, that's what psychiatric meds are)

    Sponsor has a point - will say that. When I spoke to him just now, my speech was slurred and my thinking process was very slow, having just woken up from a deep nap the instant he called (waking me up).

    I'm still waking up right now and my mind clearer. But, a few minutes ago, I was out of it. My life has more or less been this way since they put me on meds initially. It takes me several hours to fully wake up in the morning these days, for instance (and that's only, lol, after I've had about five cups of coffee).

    Thanks - will look forward to replies.
    Sponsors really shouldn't be telling you what meds to take. Your sponsor probably isn't a doctor. Like somebody else said, we don't know what you're taking and you don't need to/shouldn't say, but not taking your meds could greatly decrease the possibility of your life and sobriety going smoothly. I'm assuming you didn't doctor shop until you found a script of fentanyl. Sponsors are great for keeping you with the program, but they shouldn't be the ones making the program.

    Both inside and outside of AA there is a lot of misinformation. I know a bipolar guy who was told to go off his meds by some sober peers. The good news is that he didn't relapse. The bad news is that the cops found him naked walking somebody else's dog at dawn and during his stay in jail he started taking his meds again. I'm guessing that the individuals who offered that helpful advice are no longer telling people that "psychiatry can shove it."
    A working class hero is something to be

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