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Thread: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

  1. #11
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrider View Post
    My current girlfriend dragged me to an AA meeting tonight. To be honest, I've never heard so much BS in my entire life. Alcoholism a disease? *Scoff* In my opinion, it's very simple - don't drink and you won't become a drunken ***h***e. More specifically, ever heard of the "steering wheel" concept? Keep your hands on the wheel and don't turn into those convenience store parking lots. It's that simple.

    Furthermore, these people (cult members - from my perspective) say that if you don't work the 12 steps, you will either die, go to jail or a mental institution. Guess what? I left AA in a huff over 20 years ago and still am alive, happy and free. Furthermore, all my old AA "friends" are either dead (most of them are dead - young or old at the time I knew them), in prison or in mental hospitals. I have News: AA does not work and is nothing more than a cult! And I'm living proof of that, being that I'm still around - if my niece or another family member ever has any problems with alcohol/drugs, the last thing I'm doing is sending them to AA.

    AA - what a waste of time. I spent two or three years going to them stupid meetings, working the steps, serving on committees, sponsoring others - I found AA at 19 and left at 23 in disgust (haven't been back since until tonight).

    I couldn't take it any longer: When it came my turn to share in the meeting, I said just about everything I just posted. You should have seen the looks on their faces.

    AA - A Big thumbs down and screw those people.
    I watched a segment on AA just a short while ago, and in finding the link I also see a few other interesting ones as to it's effectiveness as well as the hold AA has on the judicial system as well as the hearts and minds of the gp.

    Does Alcoholics Anonymous really work? | MSNBC
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

  2. #12
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    This. AA won't work for every one, but they do help many, and any group that helps people beat addiction is ok in my book.
    What if the group helps people beat addiction at a cost of $4.5 million per addict? They okay in your book?

    Cost is a criterion that should not be overlooked. This particular group helps an enormous number of people at a miniscule cost to non-addicts. This group should be celebrated wildly for this simple fact alone.
    "The knowledge and prudence of the poor themselves, are absolutely the only means by which any general and permanent improvement in their condition can be effected." - Thomas Malthus

  3. #13
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrider View Post
    My current girlfriend dragged me to an AA meeting tonight. To be honest, I've never heard so much BS in my entire life. Alcoholism a disease? *Scoff* In my opinion, it's very simple - don't drink and you won't become a drunken ***h***e. More specifically, ever heard of the "steering wheel" concept? Keep your hands on the wheel and don't turn into those convenience store parking lots. It's that simple.

    Furthermore, these people (cult members - from my perspective) say that if you don't work the 12 steps, you will either die, go to jail or a mental institution. Guess what? I left AA in a huff over 20 years ago and still am alive, happy and free. Furthermore, all my old AA "friends" are either dead (most of them are dead - young or old at the time I knew them), in prison or in mental hospitals. I have News: AA does not work and is nothing more than a cult! And I'm living proof of that, being that I'm still around - if my niece or another family member ever has any problems with alcohol/drugs, the last thing I'm doing is sending them to AA.

    AA - what a waste of time. I spent two or three years going to them stupid meetings, working the steps, serving on committees, sponsoring others - I found AA at 19 and left at 23 in disgust (haven't been back since until tonight).

    I couldn't take it any longer: When it came my turn to share in the meeting, I said just about everything I just posted. You should have seen the looks on their faces.

    AA - A Big thumbs down and screw those people.
    This post is an excellent example of the exception proves the rule fallacy.

    I know tons of people who have gone through AA and are alive, clean, and happy and many have been for long periods of time... decades. I've also know plenty who rejected AA. Many of them are dead or in jail. AA has been shown to work, but as substance abuse is a very difficult ILLNESS to treat, relapse happens regardless of treatment. Oh, and as a psychotherapist. I send MANY people to AA, and most have very positive experiences there, and remaining in the program is a good indication of success in recovery.

    I'm glad that you are doing well. But how you've gotten to where you are has ZERO to do with how anyone else, does. You want to condemn AA because it didn't work for you, that's all well and good. But it is not your place to judge whether it works for anyone else. Of that, you are have no knowledge. And you seem to have very little understanding of the addictive process, either
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #14
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrider View Post
    My current girlfriend dragged me to an AA meeting tonight. To be honest, I've never heard so much BS in my entire life. Alcoholism a disease? *Scoff* In my opinion, it's very simple - don't drink and you won't become a drunken ***h***e. More specifically, ever heard of the "steering wheel" concept? Keep your hands on the wheel and don't turn into those convenience store parking lots. It's that simple.

    Furthermore, these people (cult members - from my perspective) say that if you don't work the 12 steps, you will either die, go to jail or a mental institution. Guess what? I left AA in a huff over 20 years ago and still am alive, happy and free. Furthermore, all my old AA "friends" are either dead (most of them are dead - young or old at the time I knew them), in prison or in mental hospitals. I have News: AA does not work and is nothing more than a cult! And I'm living proof of that, being that I'm still around - if my niece or another family member ever has any problems with alcohol/drugs, the last thing I'm doing is sending them to AA.

    AA - what a waste of time. I spent two or three years going to them stupid meetings, working the steps, serving on committees, sponsoring others - I found AA at 19 and left at 23 in disgust (haven't been back since until tonight).

    I couldn't take it any longer: When it came my turn to share in the meeting, I said just about everything I just posted. You should have seen the looks on their faces.

    AA - A Big thumbs down and screw those people.
    Now to respond more directly. I don't have a problem with Alcoholism being a medical condition, though I'd hesitate to use the word disease. More akin to a mental health issue, an inability to say no to certain temptations (here I'm going into addiction as a whole, but they have AA type for nearly everything so I think we can do that). I would expect AA works about as well as any group therapy, for some very well, for others' not so much. I think that depends on whether you're a person who prefers individuality or camaraderie.

    My personal opinion of them based solely on what I've seen on tv and read about them, having never attended one, it seems like a whole lot of "poor me," and not enough pulling up the britches and finding solutions. I feel that way about most psychological solutions, too much looking back and not enough solid planning skill learning for tomorrow, and the day after.

    In my opinion, they need to be role playing and things like that to learn how to handle those temptations regardless of how or why they have the addictions. I could care less why I have PTSD, okay that's not true, but I do know why, we all do, some of it's rational some not, but what I want when I'm having issues is answers, not answers from my past, or answers about the world. I want to learn and practice til I'm super comfortable with how to walk away, or how to handle without getting anxious, or practice not ducking everytime a man raises his hand... practical stuff.

    Some people claim to need all the emotional upheaval of places like AA, but I just have never understood how it ever actually helps outside of it the comrade in misery and recovery aspect.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

  5. #15
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Now to respond more directly. I don't have a problem with Alcoholism being a medical condition, though I'd hesitate to use the word disease. More akin to a mental health issue, an inability to say no to certain temptations (here I'm going into addiction as a whole, but they have AA type for nearly everything so I think we can do that). I would expect AA works about as well as any group therapy, for some very well, for others' not so much. I think that depends on whether you're a person who prefers individuality or camaraderie.

    My personal opinion of them based solely on what I've seen on tv and read about them, having never attended one, it seems like a whole lot of "poor me," and not enough pulling up the britches and finding solutions. I feel that way about most psychological solutions, too much looking back and not enough solid planning skill learning for tomorrow, and the day after.

    In my opinion, they need to be role playing and things like that to learn how to handle those temptations regardless of how or why they have the addictions. I could care less why I have PTSD, okay that's not true, but I do know why, we all do, some of it's rational some not, but what I want when I'm having issues is answers, not answers from my past, or answers about the world. I want to learn and practice til I'm super comfortable with how to walk away, or how to handle without getting anxious, or practice not ducking everytime a man raises his hand... practical stuff.

    Some people claim to need all the emotional upheaval of places like AA, but I just have never understood how it ever actually helps outside of it the comrade in misery and recovery aspect.
    Attend an open AA meeting or two. You'll find out your assessment that it's a lot of "poor me" is quite far from the truth.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #16
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    They're a self-supported group. I see relatively little reason for hostility toward them.

    Do you prefer taxpayer-subsidized alcohol treatment, hospital-based detoxification, public safety escorting them to emergency rooms to be medically cleared for transfer to a state-funded jail's drunk tank? There is a vast array of extremely expensive interventions for substance abusers and addicts. If you want to criticize what exists for such people to drop their habit/addiction/disease/whatever-you-want-to-call-it, the Anonymous groups are the last place you want to start.
    I'm not so sure they really are so self-supporting. The courts sure seem to force a whole lot of people into it. That's not self-supportive. Anyway, there's a link in my post just a couple posts above. It was eye opening.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

  7. #17
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Attend an open AA meeting or two. You'll find out your assessment that it's a lot of "poor me" is quite far from the truth.
    I have no reason to, I have the least addictive personality of anyone I know. I don't drink, I don't gamble, I don't do drugs,... I'm a control freak, addiction just doesn't fit with that personality trait.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

  8. #18
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    I have no reason to, I have the least addictive personality of anyone I know. I don't drink, I don't gamble, I don't do drugs,... I'm a control freak, addiction just doesn't fit with that personality trait.
    Open meetings can be attended by anyone... addict or no. Some folks will go because they know someone who is in AA and they want to understand things better. Some go because it interests them. Only closed meetings can be attended by addicts.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #19
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    I'm not so sure they really are so self-supporting. The courts sure seem to force a whole lot of people into it. That's not self-supportive.
    They don't profit or even employ workers to any significant degree as a result of judicial system referrals, so compared to most psychiatric and substance abuse providers (who receive grant funding, Medicaid and Medicare reimbursement, insurance reimbursement, etc.), Anonymous groups are indeed self-supporting by almost any standard.

    Harbor criticism for the tools/programs via which substance-abusing/addicted people address their issues? So be it, but attack the Anonymous groups last of all.
    "The knowledge and prudence of the poor themselves, are absolutely the only means by which any general and permanent improvement in their condition can be effected." - Thomas Malthus

  10. #20
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    They don't profit or even employ workers to any significant degree as a result of judicial system referrals, so compared to most psychiatric and substance abuse providers (who receive grant funding, Medicaid and Medicare reimbursement, insurance reimbursement, etc.), Anonymous groups are indeed self-supporting by almost any standard.

    Harbor criticism for the tools/programs via which substance-abusing/addicted people address their issues? So be it, but attack the Anonymous groups last of all.
    Sorry, but because of the hold they have on government via court ordered AA meetings, they are at the top of my list, where they will remain. People are not all the same and should not be forced into a cookie cutter system.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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