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Thread: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

  1. #171
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    The crutch is "needing" a group in the first place.
    And some people need crutches.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  2. #172
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    No, you have 29 years sobriety thanks to you and your will power. don't give credit to others when it is all you brother. Seriously.
    Thanks, Bod, but once again we'll have to disagree. SERIOUSLY. I'm not a ****ing dunce.

  3. #173
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Now, if those programs keep these people sober...fine. But I have been to those meetings. And I know that those organizations AA/CA ARE Christian recruitment groups...period. And that is my problem with AA/CA. That they prey on people's weaknesses to get people into the God-club.
    If it didn't help you, that's fine. But it's just false that they're nothing more than Christian recruitment groups. My town has about 30 different meetings, and 30 different personalities. I don't know how many thousands of meetings there are in the U.S. but it's many thousands. Some are "God" based, many aren't. Basically the meetings are whatever somewhere between 5 and 100 or so people want them to be, so making broad declarations about what they "ARE" is really misguided or at least misleading.

    There is no reason that an organization that does not have a Christian agenda could not do the same thing.
    True, but right now this alternative is just speculative in most cities.

    And to those that say they 'need' these organizations? I say that you have not looked at yourself hard enough if you say that. Because the reason you do these things is within you. And until you understand that reason, you will never truly be free of your addiction.
    Unfortunately, addicts usually like the easy way out (no insult intended - I did/do it too), so doing something as long and hard as true self-analyzation is not something that comes easy to addicted people. Escaping is their thing, not self-reflecting.
    Doing the program correctly requires quite a bit of "self analyzation." Just as an example, making amends isn't "escaping." Neither is the process of the "searching and fearless inventory" or discussing that with another person. Again, no problem that it doesn't work for you but you're not being fair to the program either.

  4. #174
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Attend an open AA meeting or two. You'll find out your assessment that it's a lot of "poor me" is quite far from the truth.
    They pass around the pint bottle don't they, admit it.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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  5. #175
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    The crutch is "needing" a group in the first place.
    First of all, I was responding to a person who implied that if someone goes to meetings for 30 years, AA is a crutch because they're not "strong." I don't agree. Lots of reasons to go to meetings, and there are lots of incredibly strong and inspiring people in AA, successful outside AA, etc.

    Second, if it's a "crutch" so what? Obviously those who attend even 1 meeting voluntarily have tried to quit 'on their own' and failed. If they're not manly enough to white knuckle it and need some help. what's the problem? It's sort of the general attitude in this country on mental health in general - if you need some help, you're not "strong" or something. It's a wrong headed way to look at it IMO. Yes, some people cannot just white knuckle an addiction that actually is potentially fatal if self treated. Withdrawal is a medical event that requires medical supervision, and getting over the physical addiction that makes quitting a medical event is damn hard and some people do need help. They're not some kind of failed human being because of it. Some people need the support of others, and often those who attend AA do not have support anywhere else.

  6. #176
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Thanks, Bod, but once again we'll have to disagree. SERIOUSLY. I'm not a ****ing dunce.
    All good and not every case is the same but in my experience the strength is already within the individual. The group, like a teacher, can't do anything without the student.
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  7. #177
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    First of all, I was responding to a person who implied that if someone goes to meetings for 30 years, AA is a crutch because they're not "strong." I don't agree. Lots of reasons to go to meetings, and there are lots of incredibly strong and inspiring people in AA, successful outside AA, etc.

    Second, if it's a "crutch" so what? Obviously those who attend even 1 meeting voluntarily have tried to quit 'on their own' and failed. If they're not manly enough to white knuckle it and need some help. what's the problem? It's sort of the general attitude in this country on mental health in general - if you need some help, you're not "strong" or something. It's a wrong headed way to look at it IMO. Yes, some people cannot just white knuckle an addiction that actually is potentially fatal if self treated. Withdrawal is a medical event that requires medical supervision, and getting over the physical addiction that makes quitting a medical event is damn hard and some people do need help. They're not some kind of failed human being because of it. Some people need the support of others, and often those who attend AA do not have support anywhere else.
    I don't care if it is a crutch. If it helps it helps. I am just stating what I think that it is with no judgement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  8. #178
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrider View Post
    My current girlfriend dragged me to an AA meeting tonight. To be honest, I've never heard so much BS in my entire life. Alcoholism a disease? *Scoff* In my opinion, it's very simple - don't drink and you won't become a drunken ***h***e. More specifically, ever heard of the "steering wheel" concept? Keep your hands on the wheel and don't turn into those convenience store parking lots. It's that simple.

    Furthermore, these people (cult members - from my perspective) say that if you don't work the 12 steps, you will either die, go to jail or a mental institution. Guess what? I left AA in a huff over 20 years ago and still am alive, happy and free. Furthermore, all my old AA "friends" are either dead (most of them are dead - young or old at the time I knew them), in prison or in mental hospitals. I have News: AA does not work and is nothing more than a cult! And I'm living proof of that, being that I'm still around - if my niece or another family member ever has any problems with alcohol/drugs, the last thing I'm doing is sending them to AA.

    AA - what a waste of time. I spent two or three years going to them stupid meetings, working the steps, serving on committees, sponsoring others - I found AA at 19 and left at 23 in disgust (haven't been back since until tonight).

    I couldn't take it any longer: When it came my turn to share in the meeting, I said just about everything I just posted. You should have seen the looks on their faces.

    AA - A Big thumbs down and screw those people.
    It sounds to me like you have a personal axe to grind and need to lay off a program that legitimately helps other people.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  9. #179
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    It sounds to me like you have a personal axe to grind and need to lay off a program that legitimately helps other people.
    Hi Deuce,

    I'm still going to meetings and have told those people in AA what I posted here. They understand - even laughed.

    If I own an apology here, though, I apologize. I was wrong what I said in that OP (didn't know it then - but know it now).

    For more info, please see my thread *My parents and I* in the self help/advice forum

    Thanks.

  10. #180
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    For many people AA is the only method that has worked after years of trying other methods and institutions. It is not for everybody. I doubt it works very often for people who are not prepared to make the required commitment and sacrifices.

    Maybe alcoholism was not a disease for you, but it is for other people. Hardcore users have intense withdrawal symptoms. The long term damage from drinking to the liver and other organs can causes blood problems that cause brain damage and changes to the brain that make quitting difficult. Some people literally drink themselves to death.

    I do not support sentencing people to attend AA specifically. It is based on religion, so forced attendance is a first amendment violation. Also, it is not the best method for everyone.

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