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Thread: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

  1. #151
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    No, it is one size fits all.

    AA/CA are crutches. If the only reason you do not drink/get high is because of AA/CA meetings, then you have not quit anything.

    I was an addict...there is only one way to properly quit an addiction...STOP doing it and STOP associating with those who do.
    OMG!

    I didn't realize it was that simple!

    Why are all those addicts & alkies doing all that pain, misery, suffering, jail and death stuff? When all they've got to do is STOP USING!

    It's so easy! I'll tell everyone right away - dayem buddy, you're good!

    +++

    O.K., enough of being facetious.

    But if it were so easy, it wouldn't be called addiction.

    Which is why there's so many paths to sobriety. It's not the "stopping using" - we all know that beaks the cycle & ends active addiction. But it's, "How do you stop"? And the answer to that is NOT the same for everyone.

    Seriously, if stopping were so easy as putting it down, there wouldn't be the death, destitution, and incarceration we see as the result of addiction.

    Do you know how many times addicts & alkies say, "After this time, I'm done". And then they are using the next day? Saying/thinking "This is my last day/drink/bump/fix" is a hallmark addiction!

  2. #152
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    The organization I was talking about specifically was not AA, but "AA-like" in the sense they do treatment, counseling, and so on. I do not know if they were all volunteers, but they do have their own office space (3 or 4, actually), assigned counselors, assigned people to administer tests, etc., so I would imagine they have costs of some sort. They come off as more of a business, and less of a support group that meets in a church parlor.
    Oh. That's completely different. I would agree with you, then. Definitely conflict of interest.

    Your point about AA specifically is well-taken, though.
    Thank you.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #153
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    Actually that's not true.


    Understanding is the last thing an addict needs. An addict will tell you they simply need more understanding forever. They're an addict. Cold turkey that person and get them away from that lifestyle and put them around strong individuals and they'll lose their addiction. Nobody ever lost an addiction through "Pampering the addiction".
    Again, this demonstrates absolutely no understanding of addiction or treatment. No one is suggesting that one "pampers an addict", but understanding of any mental disorder is helpful in assisting in recovery.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #154
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    I went once with a buddy that got a DUI.
    Far from an alcoholic, they made him stand in front of the class and forced him to "admit" that he was.
    Or leave with out credit for the course.
    I was asked to do the same because I came with him, I told them yep. Iam a drinker and when I leave here I am heading to Golden Q to shoot pool and DRINK A BEER OR FIVE.
    Its a scam now that is aligned with MADD and the courts.
    I am sure there are people that benefit from it. Good on them for seeing their drinking as an issue.
    I go weeks without a drink. Don't miss it, don't crave it. But I like a beer a couple times a week and sit with friends at home or at our favorite bar after work.
    That level of drinking calls you a "drunk" by AA standards. Nothing worse than an ex drinker. Other than an ex smoker.
    No. Your behavior would NOT identify you as an alcoholic by AA's standards.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #155
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    No...he is right and you are wrong.
    No, he's not. Not in the least.

    I was a crack addict and I have known hundreds of people personally who were addicted to everything from booze to heroin...and you are dead wrong and he is dead right.
    And I have known thousands of people who were personally addicted from everything from alcohol, to heroin, to gambling, to sex and you don't know what you are talking about and neither does Ryan.

    And I bet you almost everyone whomI knew that has successfully quit and does not need crutches like AA/CA meetings to stay straight would agree with me.
    And I guarantee that everyone whom I knew and is successfully in recovery used AA and would agree with me. Your perception of it as a crutch is complete nonsense and just demonstrates nothing but your bias.

    Btw, you do realize that many people that go to AA/CA meetings and say they are straight are in fact still using and just go to the meetings to have everyone tell them they are loved so they can continue with their addiction? I knew several myself that did exactly that.
    So what? You are using an exception to prove a rule. There is no question that you don't know what you are talking about. There is plenty of information that shows that support groups are helpful, more helpful than not using them when it comes to addiction. Doesn't mean it always works and doesn't mean that someone can't get into recovery without them. But the likelihood of success is greater with them. You don't like AA. Good for you. Your dislike demonstrates nothing about the facts of AA. It just demonstrates your dislike.

    Good day.
    Yes, yes, you already said that. I will continue to correct you when you make such glaring errors as you have, so you can continue to say "good day" to your hearts content.


    Again, I am not saying AA/CA serves no purpose. But claiming this is the best way to help addicts is completely wrong.
    Best? In conjunction with other treatments it is. Saying it isn't is completely wrong and is just demonstrative of your bias.

    It is nothing more then a crutch.
    Not in the least. You seem to need to tell yourself this in order to justify your bias.

    The only proper way to end your addiction is to get away from those who use and just quit. It is never easy...but nothing truly worthwhile ever is.
    Your absolute statements belie your failure to demonstrate your point. There are many ways to get into recovery. Probably one of the most effective is to stop using, stay away from people who do, and garner a solid support system to assist you in remaining in recovery.

    That is how I quit. I moved away to a place where I knew no addicts and I spent six months staying straight and being around 'normal' people. When I returned, I no longer associated with addicts and have stayed clean ever since (that was in 2002).
    Good for you. Your experience, however, does not apply to others.

    If I went to Cocaine Annonymous meetings, I guarantee you I would eventually start again because all I would here about is all these stories about people feeling great on crack. Because all they do is sit around telling everyone else about their 'war' stories of how they got high for days and how great the stuff was and blah blah.
    That is the last thing I want to hear.
    If that's the kind of meeting you went to, you were going to the wrong meeting.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #156
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    No, he's not. Not in the least.



    And I have known thousands of people who were personally addicted from everything from alcohol, to heroin, to gambling, to sex and you don't know what you are talking about and neither does Ryan.



    And I guarantee that everyone whom I knew and is successfully in recovery used AA and would agree with me. Your perception of it as a crutch is complete nonsense and just demonstrates nothing but your bias.



    So what? You are using an exception to prove a rule. There is no question that you don't know what you are talking about. There is plenty of information that shows that support groups are helpful, more helpful than not using them when it comes to addiction. Doesn't mean it always works and doesn't mean that someone can't get into recovery without them. But the likelihood of success is greater with them. You don't like AA. Good for you. Your dislike demonstrates nothing about the facts of AA. It just demonstrates your dislike.



    Yes, yes, you already said that. I will continue to correct you when you make such glaring errors as you have, so you can continue to say "good day" to your hearts content.




    Best? In conjunction with other treatments it is. Saying it isn't is completely wrong and is just demonstrative of your bias.



    Not in the least. You seem to need to tell yourself this in order to justify your bias.



    Your absolute statements belie your failure to demonstrate your point. There are many ways to get into recovery. Probably one of the most effective is to stop using, stay away from people who do, and garner a solid support system to assist you in remaining in recovery.



    Good for you. Your experience, however, does not apply to others.



    If that's the kind of meeting you went to, you were going to the wrong meeting.
    Oh Jeez...why didn't you just mini-quote every word I used.



    I don't do multiple multi-quotes...I have a life.


    Good day.

  7. #157
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Oh Jeez...why didn't you just mini-quote every word I used.

    Don't like it? Too bad. I'll address each of your points as I feel fit.

    I don't do multiple multi-quotes...I have a life.


    Good day.
    Don't want to respond? That's OK with me. And you keep saying "good day" but you keep coming back.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #158
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Likewise the Al-anon sponsor needs to be somebody who has been through it all, has seen everything, has done it, understands it,
    and won't buy a lot of bull**** when he or she hears it.
    I'm not quite through the thread yet--but your post #137 and ones before this are worth noting for others.
    Being my generation, you're a wise old owl--teasing on the owl--I mean the old.

    So I short-quoted this part.
    Let me say that Al-Anon hasn't got nearly enough kudos in this thread so far.
    It took forever and was almost pointless to get Mom to go since Dad's problem wasn't "her" problem".

    Suffice it to say I don't want to take my finger out of my own dike.
    I will say it does alcoholics a lot of good to go to Al-Anon meetings--since they very often have an Al-Anon problem also--since the circle hasn't been unbroken .
    Physics is Phun

  9. #159
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Again, this demonstrates absolutely no understanding of addiction or treatment.
    No one is suggesting that one "pampers an addict", but understanding of any mental disorder is helpful in assisting in recovery.
    One of the best threads I've seen on DP in my 28 months--as so many will benefit without anyone ever knowing it.
    So much heart-breaking info given voluntarily--I hope there is a way to keep the comments in this thread out of ALL other forums.

    You've done a great job in contributing from your professional experience--I still pay for that in RL btw.
    You've done well in redirecting towards positive outcomes and INDIRECTLY doing your job as administrator.
    I thank you for that--this is a thread that needs to stay positive, successful and forward-looking.
    That's all we can control--today, tomorrow, and the plannable future.

    So I'll leave you with Neil Young as I stated to my high school students for decades.
    "The Needle and the Damage Done"
    Simply replace Needle with Alcohol or whatever ills one and there you go.

    Let me also mention I've seen very little if anything on ABUSE versus Addiction.
    I've seen a very clear line between these two in my life experiences .
    Physics is Phun

  10. #160
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    I'm not quite through the thread yet--but your post #137 and ones before this are worth noting for others.
    Being my generation, you're a wise old owl--teasing on the owl--I mean the old.

    So I short-quoted this part.
    Let me say that Al-Anon hasn't got nearly enough kudos in this thread so far.
    It took forever and was almost pointless to get Mom to go since Dad's problem wasn't "her" problem".

    Suffice it to say I don't want to take my finger out of my own dike.
    I will say it does alcoholics a lot of good to go to Al-Anon meetings--since they very often have an Al-Anon problem also--since the circle hasn't been unbroken .
    Thanks. There are a few bad AA groups out there that are not honestly following the spirit of the program, and there are probably more bad Al-Anon groups on that score than there are AA groups. Both the 'bad acts' are pretty rare. A good Al-Anon can be invaluable to help the co-dependent learn and advance as his or her loved one does. Of course alcoholism can rip a family or relationship apart and many of the non-alcoholics bail out rather than tolerate what is an intolerable situation. But many also stick it out and the alcoholism, co-dependent behavior including all the provocation, enabling, hiding it, rescuing, denial etc. become as much a way of life for her as it is for him.

    So he goes to AA--it is HIS problem after all as she sees it--and she sees absolutely no reason she needs Al-anon. But as he begins to regain his life, she is still mired in the old thought patterns and perceptions, the old tapes run, the controlling behaviors stop working well as he gets well. Not only does she sometimes resent that he would do it for the people in AA when he wouldn't do it for her, the relationship becomes more and more uncomfortable for her. It just doesn't 'feel' like she expected it to feel. And eventually she either becomes so out of control he has to leave, or she leaves believing he just isn't the man she married and now it is obvious he never will be.

    Which is why we see so many split up after he stops drinking. It is just one of those whole ugly dynamics that gets caught in the machinery.

    So yes ladies or gentlemen. Whether your loved is still drinking or not, Al-Anon can change both of your lives and your children's for the better.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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