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Thread: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

  1. #111
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    It's not AA's fault the judicial system refers people there. Your irritation should be with the judicial system for even trying to refer addicts anywhere.

    It seems you and some are trying to find something objectionable about it. In the grand scheme of things they are the least deserving of scathing criticism.
    They work together (generally), so it's partially their fault.
    Roger Rabbit: Yeah. Check the probate. Why, my Uncle Thumper had a problem with HIS probate, and he had to take these big pills, and drink lots of water.

    Eddie Valiant: Not prostate, you idiot, PROBATE!

  2. #112
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Anecdotes are often nice stories, but not evidence in a debate. They are proof of nothing as they are an example of "ONE" and as most rules have exceptions, an anecdote can be nothing but one of those exceptions. Unless the proposition includes "ALL" or "NONE" we have to accept the anecdote as nothing by a nice story. AA will never tell you they have a 100% success rate nor will they tell you that they are the ONLY path (they will tell you they are the BEST path).

    So, my mere response is "that's nice".
    Thanks for disagreeing with my OP in a nice way - I respect your opinion.

  3. #113
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Everybody is addicted to something. I'd be willing to bet you're addicted to the air in your car's tires.
    I can't help but laugh at people who claim to have no addictions or shortcomings. I'm sorry, but everybody has something with which they struggle.
    Roger Rabbit: Yeah. Check the probate. Why, my Uncle Thumper had a problem with HIS probate, and he had to take these big pills, and drink lots of water.

    Eddie Valiant: Not prostate, you idiot, PROBATE!

  4. #114
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    They work together (generally), so it's partially their fault.
    Is someone profitting? Corruption? Conflict of interest?

  5. #115
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Is someone profitting? Corruption? Conflict of interest?
    In my previous post (#109) I pointed out a local AA-like outfit that gets assigned by the court to asses people's "need" for treatment. They also get to do the treatment, and pretty nobody ever gets a pass, so yes, I'd say there's a conflict of interest.

    I will add that this court appointed status is the vast bulk of their business overall. They are legally classified as a non-profit, but in the real world they have to make enough of a "profit" to meet expanses, pay salaries (which is incentive enough to cause a conflict of interest, keeping oneself employed), and so on.
    Roger Rabbit: Yeah. Check the probate. Why, my Uncle Thumper had a problem with HIS probate, and he had to take these big pills, and drink lots of water.

    Eddie Valiant: Not prostate, you idiot, PROBATE!

  6. #116
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    While it is true that many have been able to get clean and sober without AA, it has been my experience that those who most criticize and/or disrespect organizations like AA are those who most likely to suffer from addiction or codependency and/or are in serious danger of relapse. There is no more efficient liar in the world than an addict or codependent--efficient at lying to themselves. And others. It isn't they intentionally set out to lie. It is just the only way they can continue in their addiction in peace or justify their feelings and behavior that is controlled by codependency. And to hear others speak of what they are lying about to themselves or others is just too uncomfortable or offensive for some to tolerate. That, plus a few really bad groups that don't reflect the core values of the program, is why most reject the program.

    But in my opinion alcoholism and the other addictions are a real mental, physical, and spiritual sickness and it truly is a family disease. Codependency is not chosen by any who suffer from it, but very few, if any, who are in close contact with the addict will not have negative impact on their own mental, spiritual, and sometimes physical well being.

    A good AA group and sponsor knows this, understands this, and, for those who are willing to give it an honest chance, can help people regain control of their lives without the substance(s) or activities (such as gambling) that they are addicted to.

    AA is not the crutch. The substance or activity they are addicted to is the crutch. Without it they don't feel comfortable or normal. AA can help people live productive lives without the crutch.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  7. #117
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    While I'm not religious, I will support any institution that helps people overcome addiction.

    Alcohol is one of the worst addictions in this country, and it is something many suffer from. It leads to financial ruin. It kills thousands upon thousands. Why knock something that helps many? I personally know several success stories I could point at that show me AA works. I myself ha e been to meetings. Like I said, I'm not religious. But there was less religion there are more community.

  8. #118
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    While it is true that many have been able to get clean and sober without AA, it has been my experience that those who most criticize and/or disrespect organizations like AA are those who most likely to suffer from addiction or codependency and/or are in serious danger of relapse. There is no more efficient liar in the world than an addict or codependent--efficient at lying to themselves. And others. It isn't they intentionally set out to lie. It is just the only way they can continue in their addiction in peace or justify their feelings and behavior that is controlled by codependency. And to hear others speak of what they are lying about to themselves or others is just too uncomfortable or offensive for some to tolerate. That, plus a few really bad groups that don't reflect the core values of the program, is why most reject the program.

    But in my opinion alcoholism and the other addictions are a real mental, physical, and spiritual sickness and it truly is a family disease. Codependency is not chosen by any who suffer from it, but very few, if any, who are in close contact with the addict will not have negative impact on their own mental, spiritual, and sometimes physical well being.

    A good AA group and sponsor knows this, understands this, and, for those who are willing to give it an honest chance, can help people regain control of their lives without the substance(s) or activities (such as gambling) that they are addicted to.

    AA is not the crutch. The substance or activity they are addicted to is the crutch. Without it they don't feel comfortable or normal. AA can help people live productive lives without the crutch.
    Thanks for your respectful post - will consider what you said.

  9. #119
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by akrunner88 View Post
    While I'm not religious, I will support any institution that helps people overcome addiction.

    Alcohol is one of the worst addictions in this country, and it is something many suffer from. It leads to financial ruin. It kills thousands upon thousands. Why knock something that helps many? I personally know several success stories I could point at that show me AA works. I myself ha e been to meetings. Like I said, I'm not religious. But there was less religion there are more community.
    That's the thing. While God will be acknowledged in the AA program overall and in the steps, God can be whatever the person wants to make it. The higher power can be a concept or a possibility or the group itself or whatever--there is never a requirement that anybody embrace religion at all in order to participate in the program. Members of the group are just expected to respect the rights of those who are. It has been an interesting phenomenon for me, though, to watch how many non believers or non religious, after some time in the program, started to warm up to the possibility that the higher power was real. There are exceptions of course, but nobody is ever disrespected for not being a 'believer'.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  10. #120
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrider View Post
    My current girlfriend dragged me to an AA meeting tonight. To be honest, I've never heard so much BS in my entire life. Alcoholism a disease? *Scoff* In my opinion, it's very simple - don't drink and you won't become a drunken ***h***e. More specifically, ever heard of the "steering wheel" concept? Keep your hands on the wheel and don't turn into those convenience store parking lots. It's that simple.

    Furthermore, these people (cult members - from my perspective) say that if you don't work the 12 steps, you will either die, go to jail or a mental institution. Guess what? I left AA in a huff over 20 years ago and still am alive, happy and free. Furthermore, all my old AA "friends" are either dead (most of them are dead - young or old at the time I knew them), in prison or in mental hospitals. I have News: AA does not work and is nothing more than a cult! And I'm living proof of that, being that I'm still around - if my niece or another family member ever has any problems with alcohol/drugs, the last thing I'm doing is sending them to AA.

    AA - what a waste of time. I spent two or three years going to them stupid meetings, working the steps, serving on committees, sponsoring others - I found AA at 19 and left at 23 in disgust (haven't been back since until tonight).

    I couldn't take it any longer: When it came my turn to share in the meeting, I said just about everything I just posted. You should have seen the looks on their faces.

    AA - A Big thumbs down and screw those people.
    It's apparent you missed one of the more important Traditions in AA, despite the years you claim you were involved in it.

    They have no opinion on outside issues, including your experience with the program. As such, the only comments your likely to get will be from people who don't know any better, or don't have any experience with it, so I don't know how much ammunition your going to gather to throw back at your girlfriend.

    Since your girlfriend thought you would benefit from such a program, I wish you well in dealing with whatever issue she thought you need help with.

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