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Thread: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

  1. #91
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrider View Post
    My current girlfriend dragged me to an AA meeting tonight. To be honest, I've never heard so much BS in my entire life. Alcoholism a disease? *Scoff* In my opinion, it's very simple - don't drink and you won't become a drunken ***h***e. More specifically, ever heard of the "steering wheel" concept? Keep your hands on the wheel and don't turn into those convenience store parking lots. It's that simple.

    Furthermore, these people (cult members - from my perspective) say that if you don't work the 12 steps, you will either die, go to jail or a mental institution. Guess what? I left AA in a huff over 20 years ago and still am alive, happy and free. Furthermore, all my old AA "friends" are either dead (most of them are dead - young or old at the time I knew them), in prison or in mental hospitals. I have News: AA does not work and is nothing more than a cult! And I'm living proof of that, being that I'm still around - if my niece or another family member ever has any problems with alcohol/drugs, the last thing I'm doing is sending them to AA.

    AA - what a waste of time. I spent two or three years going to them stupid meetings, working the steps, serving on committees, sponsoring others - I found AA at 19 and left at 23 in disgust (haven't been back since until tonight).

    I couldn't take it any longer: When it came my turn to share in the meeting, I said just about everything I just posted. You should have seen the looks on their faces.

    AA - A Big thumbs down and screw those people.
    It's cult like behavior isn't really a new observation
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    Cult Test, AA Answers 0
    Charlie Sheen Turns On The Cult - And Feels The Wrath of Alcoholics Anonymous - The Clean Slate Addiction Site
    Cult or cure: the AA backlash - Life and Style - The Independent
    The AA is out of step with research on addiction
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  2. #92
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You obviously don't understand the concept of AA, of recovery, or of addiction. You didn't "quit". No one does. It's not a crutch. It assistance to remain in recovery from a serious disorder.

    And as far as it being a "Christian recruitment" group, the only folks I've ever heard who've said that are militant atheists who really don't understand AA. The "higher power" doesn't have to mean a deity. I can give several examples of people who I knew who used something completely different as their "higher power". AA often gets criticized for using "God", but there are meetings that omit the higher power from it's literature.
    Oh great...some know-it-all counsellor who just because he makes money off of other people's misery and apparently thinks he understands it all.

    Gee like I have not run into this type before...not.

    Having dealt with you before I will not waste my time trying to convince you of anything...the effort would be wasted.

    What I will say is that if you need something external to stop you from using again, then that external thing IS a crutch. To say it is not is just counselling gobbledegook that your types use so that those you 'help' feel good about these crutches they use.
    And yes, people do quit. If you have not used for 12 years, then you have quit for the 12 years...by the very definition of quit. Yes, you are still an addict...but you have quit. But like anything you quit, you can always start doing it again. Until you die, nothing you quit is forever.

    And, once again, if you have never been addicted to the 'drug' in question (booze, drugs, food, porn, whatever) then it is you who does not understand the subject.
    It is the height of arrogance and ignorance to have never done something and then to turn around and tell someone who has done that thing that you know better then they do what they are going through and that you know better then they do how to stop it.

    What's next? Assuming you are a man, are you going to tell women how you know better then they do what childbirth feels like?



    Go back to your practice and make more money telling other people about things you have never experienced yourself pal.

    We are done here as I am not wasting another minute on your know-it-all, arrogant nonsense.

    Good day.
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  3. #93
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Everybody is addicted to something. I'd be willing to bet you're addicted to the air in your car's tires.
    It's only an addiction when it's unhealthy.
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  4. #94
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    That seems like a good, practical approach.

    If people need AA and it works for them - great. But people are different, and everyone needs different approaches.

    I'm also not sure I buy the "one drink will send you right back into the gutter" thing. Again - some people, yes. Others - maybe just need some help to cut back rather than give it up. Like with eating - find out what the triggers are that make one overeat/drink too much and work to avoid those triggers. No one says obese people can't ever eat food again; we don't even say you can never eat a dessert again.
    Well, there is one big difference between overeating and drinking alcohol. You can prevent falling back into alcohol addiction by never touching another drop again. However you cannot stop eating so avoiding the problems with overeating is much more difficult IMHO.

    The saying is true, one drink will send you back to your addiction. Maybe not the first one drink, or the second one drink, but it is the third/fourth/fifth one drink that will send you back to your addiction. Because the problem is with addictions, you cannot do "moderation" when it comes to your alcohol intake, if you were able to do that you would not be an alcoholic addict in the first place.
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    It's only an addiction when it's unhealthy.
    Emotionally or physically? Or both? Or perhaps when you've become so dependent on something that it forces to you go to whatever length necessary to you regain access to whatever your addicted to. You can live without a car if you had to. You're just not willing to give up its conveniences.

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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Emotionally or physically? Or both? Or perhaps when you've become so dependent on something that it forces to you go to whatever length necessary to you regain access to whatever your addicted to. You can live without a car if you had to. You're just not willing to give up its conveniences.
    Both. But nobody is addicted to their car. People don't refuse to get out of the car because they want to be with it so much.
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Both. But nobody is addicted to their car. People don't refuse to get out of the car because they want to be with it so much.
    Of course people are addicted to their cars. A better way of framing it is that they are "dependent" on their cars.

    Ask a random person to not drive their car for a week and use public transportation. He or she make every excuse possible to not use public transportation. They'll become defiant and possibly emotionally distraught. Anxiety will kick in. They'll say that they don't use their car out of convenience, but out of necessity. Yadda, yadda, yadda...but in the end, it's their fix.

    Take someone's refrigerator away for a month. Or washer/dryer. It would cause people to change how that shop for food and preserve perishables. It was cause people use laundromats. The means changing their routines . What a hassle, right?

  8. #98
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrider View Post
    My current girlfriend dragged me to an AA meeting tonight. To be honest, I've never heard so much BS in my entire life. Alcoholism a disease? *Scoff* In my opinion, it's very simple - don't drink and you won't become a drunken ***h***e. More specifically, ever heard of the "steering wheel" concept? Keep your hands on the wheel and don't turn into those convenience store parking lots. It's that simple.

    Furthermore, these people (cult members - from my perspective) say that if you don't work the 12 steps, you will either die, go to jail or a mental institution. Guess what? I left AA in a huff over 20 years ago and still am alive, happy and free. Furthermore, all my old AA "friends" are either dead (most of them are dead - young or old at the time I knew them), in prison or in mental hospitals. I have News: AA does not work and is nothing more than a cult! And I'm living proof of that, being that I'm still around - if my niece or another family member ever has any problems with alcohol/drugs, the last thing I'm doing is sending them to AA.

    AA - what a waste of time. I spent two or three years going to them stupid meetings, working the steps, serving on committees, sponsoring others - I found AA at 19 and left at 23 in disgust (haven't been back since until tonight).

    I couldn't take it any longer: When it came my turn to share in the meeting, I said just about everything I just posted. You should have seen the looks on their faces.

    AA - A Big thumbs down and screw those people.
    Sorry you had a bad experience. AA certainly isn't the answer or effective for everybody, but it has proved to be the answer and effective for hundreds of thousands even though the overall percentage of those who are able to stay clean and sober for five years is pretty small.

    Nobody sets out to be an alcoholic. Many who drink a lot never become alcoholic but statistics suggest that about 1 in 10 people who drink, whether they drink moderately or a lot, are genetically susceptible to alcoholism. And at some point, early, midlife, or late, they will cross an invisible line into alcoholism. And it is a bonafide, medically recognized disease that affects a person physically, mentally, and spiritually.

    Those who have strong, intelligent support and encouragement and incentive in their professional, personal, and social lives will be more likely to succeed than those who do not have that. By the time some are willing to get help, they have already estranged themselves from such support. Those who depend on their old drinking buddies for socialization are far more likely to slip and relapse. It takes awhile to get the program whether it is AA for the alcoholic or Al-anon for their loved ones. Many don't stick around long enough to 'get it' and those are the ones more likely to hold such self-help support groups in contempt. And of course there are always those who a) won't admit they have a problem or b) refuse to think alcoholism is a disease rather than a moral weakness or c) are convinced they don't need help to get and stay sober.

    There are no guarantees no matter what means a person uses to get sober. It takes very little to break sobriety and it simply is going to happen for many. We are a drinking society and the temptation is everywhere. The last studies I saw, however, show that those who stay sober for four or more years are less likely to choose to slip or relapse than those who have less time in sobriety.

    But I give AA a strong thumbs up for the positive benefit it has been for many, many thousands of individuals.
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  9. #99
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Of course people are addicted to their cars. A better way of framing it is that they are "dependent" on their cars.

    Ask a random person to not drive their car for a week and use public transportation. He or she make every excuse possible to not use public transportation. They'll become defiant and possibly emotionally distraught. Anxiety will kick in. They'll say that they don't use their car out of convenience, but out of necessity. Yadda, yadda, yadda...but in the end, it's their fix.

    Take someone's refrigerator away for a month. Or washer/dryer. It would cause people to change how that shop for food and preserve perishables. It was cause people use laundromats. The means changing their routines . What a hassle, right?
    Addiction and dedication are two different things. I don't use public transportation because public transportation doesn't do what I need done. I am no addicted to my car, it is the proper tool for the job that I need done. A hassle and addiction are not the same.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  10. #100
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    Re: Alcoholics Anonymous - Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Addiction and dedication are two different things. I don't use public transportation because public transportation doesn't do what I need done. I am no addicted to my car, it is the proper tool for the job that I need done. A hassle and addiction are not the same.
    Denial works great for a lot of people...

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