View Poll Results: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

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  • Yes, America is the greatest Country.

    36 62.07%
  • I agree with Will.

    22 37.93%
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Thread: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

  1. #331
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Once again, you don't seem to have any idea what your political opponents actually have to say. That entitlement that you oppose, it only exists in your own mind. We don't say anything like that. We don't advocate anything like that. The only ones expressing that kind of entitlement are the Tea Partiers whining that they don't want to pay taxes anymore, despite using government to enrich their lives for decades and passing the bill on to my generation. The entitled person is the one with the "keep your government hands off my Medicare" sign.
    You are making it up as you go along. The Tea Party is not suggesting that we do not pay taxes.

  2. #332
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Anyone who takes John Kerry's acceptance of American War crime accusations seriously is living in la la land. Kerry does not exactly have a history of credibility on the issue. That's why the swift boat veterans tore him a new ass**** when he ran for president in 2004 touting his military service. He slandered his fellow soldiers in Vietnam with accusations dreamed up by the so-called Winter Soldier investigation which was made up of primarily of soldiers claiming to have seen those alleged war crimes. It turned out that they had not even served a day in Vietnam. One of them did not even serve in the military.
    John Kerry's quotes were a small part of the article, which included a long list of war crimes alleged against the US. If it makes it any easier, then we could both have a look at the list of US war crimes on this list, choose just one to debate, and let each other know. I didn't mention Korea before - several million dead during US rule. But choose any country and allegation listed and we'll see if the allegations of war crimes stand up.
    List of US War Crimes

  3. #333
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-scot View Post
    Till he came along, we had to make do with Alexander, Catherine, Peter and Alfred.
    You forgot Constantine, Justinian and Theodosius.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

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  4. #334
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    You forgot Constantine, Justinian and Theodosius.
    You got me there. But we both forgot "Great Britain".

  5. #335
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-scot View Post
    That's a good post. I am not usually given to throwing savage accusations at America for its own sake, but when Americans crow about being the greatest, they deserve to be dragged off their pedestals and I'm prepared to be merciless on this thread to achieve that aim. The Scots do the same to us English in similar situations and we deserve no less. I know plenty of Scots among my own family and friends, and when English people are not asserting their superiority, then many Scots are willing to freely pay us some genuine compliments, as equals. When we go looking for compliments, then unsurprisingly the opposite happens.
    Thank you, and like yourself I am reserving no particular bile for Americans, for whom - having enjoyed a certain amount of time in their society - I have a particular liking.

    That there are braggarts amongst them should come as no surprise - those are to be found amongst the insecure in every society - and the phenomenon is more understandable in US society for a number of reasons.

    The first being that it is the wealthiest and most influential society currently on earth - that can easily generate a sense of superiority amongst those who do not analyse the matter any further.

    Then, given the fact that only 30% of Americans have ever held a passport (compared to 75% of Brits) and the attitude I encountered while there - encapsulated by a similar statement to this - "Why should I travel overseas when I can experience everything the world has to offer right here - if I want to see Chinese, I can go to San Francisco, if I want to experience Italy I can go to the Italian quarter of New York ..." a certain parochialness is to be expected.

    But perhaps most significant, is the inbuilt propaganda system (not uncommon in other societies either,) which tells every American, from the time he/she can understand language, that everything American is ipso facto inherently superior to everything emanating from any other society. From their form of governance, through their laws, to their cultural practices, even extending to their automobiles. It is a very strong willed and well informed child who is capable of resisting such indoctrination, and it is a great credit to Americans that so many do (as evinced by some who post here).

    So I have both admiration and liking for the American people - the braggarts aside - as who can deny their friendliness, general good will, and enormous generosity - not necessarily at the governmental level, but Americans personally contribute at the per capita level more than any other nationality of which I know. I wish them every success.

    And, LOL, as someone who is half Edinburgh Scots, and half southern English, I have to say that the Scots do tend to go overboard in their criticism of the English. I fear the Scots, a bit like the Americans, tend to believe their national mythology a smidge too much. People such as William Wallace were not quite the sainted hero he is depicted as, and in fact he achieved bugger all. Have a look at the flag which flies over Edinburgh castle if you want to see the eventual extent of his victories.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

  6. #336
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-scot View Post
    So we can assume that there at least 18,000 to 20,000 other people in Afghanistan who are very upset about American and allied attacks on their country.
    I noticed the 18,000-20,000 figure you cite is civilian deaths from both coalition forces and insurgents. It's somewhat disingenuous to imply that Afghans are upset with coalition forces for the total of these deaths when a large portion resulted from an enemy that's indiscriminate in its use of force and, in fact, deliberately targets civilians. Conveniently, in the column totaling deaths from insurgents there are lowercase "n/a"s inserted for the first five years. But we can assume that insurgent targeted assassinations and bombings accounted for a significant number of deaths. Also, I wonder how many of these "civilians" were actually insurgents or people in close proximity to insurgents or terorists. How many times were insurgents stripped of their weapons once they were dispatched, with the Taliban scoring a propaganda coup by claiming they were civilians? We'll never know. And do you think the Taliban gave a **** if kids we're playing in the street near mortars or IEDs? But you know as well as I do that the coalition, unlike the Taliban, took extraordinary measures and used some of the strictest rules of engagement ever devised to avoid civilian casualties. Can the same be said of our enemy? No.

    Finally, if Afghans don't want Americans fighting in their country then they need to ensure that it's not used a staging post to carry out attacks against our country.
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  7. #337
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    But perhaps most significant, is the inbuilt propaganda system (not uncommon in other societies either,) which tells every American, from the time he/she can understand language, that everything American is ipso facto inherently superior to everything emanating from any other society. From their form of governance, through their laws, to their cultural practices, even extending to their automobiles.
    I have to take exception with this one. There was a time when if you wanted to be the butt of a joke you bought a Chrysler, Ford, or AMC vehicle. Anyone remember the Pacer? Or the Pinto? Or the Cordoba? Of the Zephyr? These cars sucked balls. Only in recent years have domestic manufacturers made cars once again that Americans will buy, although they've always loved their American trucks and SUVs. Personally, I drive an eleven-year-old Camry and will probably drive it until the wheels falls off. I can't imagine ever owning a Ford again. One Taurus was enough.
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  8. #338
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    I have to take exception with this one. There was a time when if you wanted to be the butt of a joke you bought a Chrysler, Ford, or AMC vehicle. Anyone remember the Pacer? Or the Pinto? Or the Cordoba? Of the Zephyr? These cars sucked balls. Only in recent years have domestic manufacturers made cars once again that Americans will buy, although they've always loved their American trucks and SUVs. Personally, I drive an eleven-year-old Camry and will probably drive it until the wheels falls off. I can't imagine ever owning a Ford again. One Taurus was enough.
    Fair comment - I was guided (or was that misguided?) by a number of claims from seemingly patriotic Americans who claimed to own large US manufactured SUVs and things like Ford F150s and big Cadillacs. There was much sneering at German cars such as Mercedes, Audi and BMW, and I assumed from that, Americans considered their automotive products pre-eminent. I must confess I know very little about American cars, and have not heard of a Pacer, a Pinto, or a Cordoba. The only Cordoba of which I am aware is in Spain.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-scot View Post
    John Kerry's quotes were a small part of the article, which included a long list of war crimes alleged against the US. If it makes it any easier, then we could both have a look at the list of US war crimes on this list, choose just one to debate, and let each other know. I didn't mention Korea before - several million dead during US rule. But choose any country and allegation listed and we'll see if the allegations of war crimes stand up.
    List of US War Crimes
    the US never ruled Korea. You are simply delusional.

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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    the US never ruled Korea. You are simply delusional.
    I think it's you who is delusional. The US army military government in Korea ruled the southern part of the peninsular from September 1945 to August 1948.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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