View Poll Results: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

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  • Yes, America is the greatest Country.

    36 62.07%
  • I agree with Will.

    22 37.93%
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Thread: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

  1. #301
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-scot View Post
    Are you saying that the words of John Kerry and the Nuremburg prosecutor that the USA is guilty of war crimes is "propaganda"? Anyone can say the word "propaganda" to easily dismiss uncomfortable truths which challenge the alleged "greatness" of their country. If that's all you can come up with, then that's a shame.
    I am saying the whole piece you linked is nothing but baseless anti-American propaganda. Anybody who reads it can see that.

  2. #302
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    I am saying the whole piece you linked is nothing but baseless anti-American propaganda. Anybody who reads it can see that.
    On the contrary, the piece list a series of accusations of war crimes against the USA, some of which have been confirmed by John Kerry and a Nuremburg prosecutor, and none of which you have challenged. You've had some time to digest them but your only response over 2 days has been to dismiss the whole thing twice as "propaganda". The truth hurts.

    Many Americans, like many Brits past and present, like to live in a bubble where they do no wrong and anyone who highlights uncomfortable truths about their crimes is anti-American or anti-British. Part of growing up is coming to terms with the good and bad in life and that includes the good and bad of one's country's history. When a nation does this, it can say sorry for past offences, seek to make amends, and move on. When a nation doesn't do this, it continues in the same complacent way, clinging to its image of "greatness", breezing from one atrocity to the next, perhaps acknowledging the occasional "mistake" or "tactical error". On present form, I confidently expect America to repeat the mistakes of Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan for many years to come. Britain is no better.

  3. #303
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-scot View Post
    On the contrary, the piece list a series of accusations of war crimes against the USA, some of which have been confirmed by John Kerry and a Nuremburg prosecutor, and none of which you have challenged. You've had some time to digest them but your only response over 2 days has been to dismiss the whole thing twice as "propaganda". The truth hurts.

    Many Americans, like many Brits past and present, like to live in a bubble where they do no wrong and anyone who highlights uncomfortable truths about their crimes is anti-American or anti-British. Part of growing up is coming to terms with the good and bad in life and that includes the good and bad of one's country's history. When a nation does this, it can say sorry for past offences, seek to make amends, and move on. When a nation doesn't do this, it continues in the same complacent way, clinging to its image of "greatness", breezing from one atrocity to the next, perhaps acknowledging the occasional "mistake" or "tactical error". On present form, I confidently expect America to repeat the mistakes of Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan for many years to come. Britain is no better.
    The rant you posted a link to does nothing but simply assert that every act of war by the US since World War II is a war crime. It is patent nonsense. And if you believe that John Kerry agrees with what is posted there you are an even greater fool than I thought.

  4. #304
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Funny you mention that. My wife is from the Philippines. Here's an example of a country that was crapped on by the Spanish for 300 years, then was subjected to a brutal suppression of a guerrilla war over a fifteen year period by the Americans. It was the site of a horrific massacre committed by American soldiers that I'd wager 99.99% of Americans living today have never heard of (The "Massacre" and the Aftermath - US History Scene). And yet my wife's father, if he harbored any grudges, sure never let me know about it. In fact, he proudly served in the Commonwealth Army in the months before the Japanese invaded his island in the Spring of 1942 and then fought as a guerrilla against the Japanese for the duration of the war. It was this wartime service that ultimately permitted him to become a U.S. citizen. One thing that I found extraordinary was he harbored no ill will against the Japanese, even though their brutality cut close to home. I suppose if he was angry with anyone it was with himself for beheading a Catholic priest with a sugarcane machete, but then that's another story.
    Ok. I agree that the Philippines demonstrate "greatness" as a nation in their capacity to forgive the Japanese - and for me, you are confirming in the case of your relatives what I had already heard. If Filipinos came onto this forum and started up a thread about the "greatness" of their country, then it would still be arrogance but they would have a pretty good claim. We have a lot to learn from them.

    On the other hand, victors / oppressors can't presume of the peoples who they slaughtered that they should be so magnanimous. It's right for the Japanese to apologise to the Filipinos, the Americans to apologise to the Vietnamese, Cambodians, Laotians, Iraqis, Afghans etc, and there are no end of peoples that deserve an apology from the British. If a slaughtered people doesn't demand an apology and reparation, we shouldn't breathe a sigh of relief or presume we did nothing wrong. Do you agree with me on this?

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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    The rant you posted a link to does nothing but simply assert that every act of war by the US since World War II is a war crime. It is patent nonsense. And if you believe that John Kerry agrees with what is posted there you are an even greater fool than I thought.
    I quoted John Kerry's exact words from the article in which he accepted that the USA had committed war crimes in the USA. His views on the whole article are not recorded.

    So I am now possibly a "fool" who writes "nonsense"? Ad hominem stuff which again dodges the issue - getting uncomfortable is it? Shall we debate this properly and get into the definition of "war crime" and see how many of the estimated 20 million deaths caused by America in the last 50 years come within that category? Or, if you want, you can admit that the USA has committed war crimes in its recent past which have hugely dented its "greatness", and we can call it quits.

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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-scot View Post
    I quoted John Kerry's exact words from the article in which he accepted that the USA had committed war crimes in the USA. His views on the whole article are not recorded.

    So I am now possibly a "fool" who writes "nonsense"? Ad hominem stuff which again dodges the issue - getting uncomfortable is it? Shall we debate this properly and get into the definition of "war crime" and see how many of the estimated 20 million deaths caused by America in the last 50 years come within that category? Or, if you want, you can admit that the USA has committed war crimes in its recent past which have hugely dented its "greatness", and we can call it quits.
    Just your first sentence, if you care to read it, shows clearly that you are simply ranting.

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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    Just your first sentence, if you care to read it, shows clearly that you are simply ranting.
    I don't know which sentence you mean but I don't accept I am "ranting". I conclude from the exchange of views on this thread that there are a good number of Americans unable or unwilling to accept the fact of their country has long engaged in wholesale killing of innocent people, for the sake of wider geopolitical aims. Such Americans prefer to live in a wonderland where they are great and good and the lives of people who they deem to be enemies are worthless. If America is ruled by such people, which it has been, then during those times, it has been a rogue state.

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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-scot View Post
    I don't know which sentence you mean but I don't accept I am "ranting". I conclude from the exchange of views on this thread that there are a good number of Americans unable or unwilling to accept the fact of their country has long engaged in wholesale killing of innocent people, for the sake of wider geopolitical aims. Such Americans prefer to live in a wonderland where they are great and good and the lives of people who they deem to be enemies are worthless. If America is ruled by such people, which it has been, then during those times, it has been a rogue state.
    Yes, I had already understood that reading is very challenging for you. Best of luck with that handicap.

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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Please explain what exactly makes a country great and how the United States exemplifies that more than every other nation.
    The answer to the question "Is America the greatest country" cannot be answered by a black and white answer. When it comes to its military arsenal and defense, I say yes the US is ahead and the greatest in that department, followed by Russia.

    When it comes to the politicians who run the country, I say the US fails and is not as great as it once was when it was founded on principles and moral values. The US is ruled primarily by special interest group and capitalism and will put both these particular concerns before the welfare of its people. The Republican Party shut down the US government because of ObamaCare which would benefit low-income people and was at the time already the law of the land. The shutting down of the government cost 24 billion and accomplished nothing of value but cost many Americans a paycheck.

  10. #310
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    There will never be an acceptable and logical counter to the claim that any nation is the greatest country on earth - because that is simply an illogical claim which can never be proven.

    Furthermore it is a claim so heavily invested in nationalistic pride that anyone so lacking in sensibility as to make it, is going to be incapable of accepting any evidence of its illegitimacy.

    I have said this before, and I will say it again - there is no such animal as 'the greatest country' and there never has been. There are simply insufficient objective and universally accepted criteria by which to arrive at that judgement.

    It may be claimed that Scandinavia offers the most social justice; that Germany makes the best machinery; that Australia boasts the best white-sand beaches; and so on. Many such claims are verifiable, but what do they prove other than the obvious advantages? Is it common to hear Swedes, or Germans, or Australians, claim theirs is the best country in the world? And if they did, should that be taken as self-evident?

    "I am the greatest!" claims are most often evidence of an underlying sense of uncertainty, at best, and inferiority, at worst. After all, what self-evidently superior being has to tell others of his superiority? There is an old adage which says "Self-praise is no recommendation." From which one must draw the obvious inference that compliments must come from someone else.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

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