View Poll Results: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

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  • Yes, America is the greatest Country.

    36 62.07%
  • I agree with Will.

    22 37.93%
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Thread: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

  1. #271
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    I have a hard time figuring out who didn't make "mistakes." Japan (imperialism, WWII atrocities), Britain (imperialism, slavery, suppression of uprisings in colonies), Netherlands (imperialism, slavery), France (imperialism, slavery) China (Mao, Tibet, etc.), Italy (imperialism), Russia (imperialism; Soviet Union--Stalin), Germany (imperialism; WWII atrocities, e.g. "Final Solution"), Denmark (imperialism, slave trade), Norway (slave trade), Spain (imperialism, slavery, destruction of indigenous American peoples), Portugal (slavery, imperialism). Even non-aggressive Switzerland has blood on its hands. It did a shameful job of being Hitler's banker and stealing Jewish assets.

    So that leaves us with what? San Marino?


    USA--#1!
    Me too. I think it leaves us with the conclusion that alleging that one's country is the "greatest" is a silly playground tactic which is likely to lose you friends and alienate people. Agreed?

  2. #272
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    This thread is perhaps moving towards its natural end so I thought I'd add a quote from Scripture I like:

    Luke 9: 46 An argument started among them as to which of them might be the greatest. 47 But Jesus, knowing what they were thinking in their heart, took a child and stood him by His side, 48 and said to them, “Whoever receives this child in My name receives Me, and whoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me; for the one who is least among all of you, this is the one who is great.”
    (New American Standard Version) Luke 9 NASB

  3. #273
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-scot View Post
    Me too. I think it leaves us with the conclusion that alleging that one's country is the "greatest" is a silly playground tactic which is likely to lose you friends and alienate people. Agreed?
    Well, I agree that taking a concept such as "American Exceptionalism" to imply some measure of superiority is likely to ruffle a few feathers, but I don't agree that this is nothing more than an academic exercise or a game akin to Tic-Tac-Toe. I mean, what if we did the opposite and just told the world, "Man, the USA is the worst country on the planet. It sucks! STAY HOME!"? Would that be productive? On the other hand, people want to associate with and be part of a winner. Take our Chinese friends. Why are they coming here in such large numbers? Because they think we're losers and made a lot of mistakes? Or do they see something in the place that maybe even many native-born Americans don't see? Would we be better off if we infected our national psyche with a negative mindset or even that it's fine to just be mediocre? I don't think so.

    I can tell you one thing. There is at least one immigrant who thinks the U.S. is the greatest country on the planet: my wife. She made a decision to leave her home country and apply at a U.S. embassy for a visa. I mean, she could have picked any other country on the planet, some of which would have been more accommodating or made her jump through fewer hoops, but she chose the U.S. And if you ask her who's numero uno you can bet I already know her answer.
    Last edited by Ahlevah; 05-06-15 at 01:48 PM.
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  4. #274
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Well, I agree that taking a concept such as "American Exceptionalism" to imply some measure of superiority is likely to ruffle a few feathers, but I don't agree that this is nothing more than an academic exercise or a game akin to Tic-Tac-Toe. I mean, what if we did the opposite and just told the world, "Man, the USA is the worst country on the planet. It sucks! STAY HOME!"? Would that be productive? On the other hand, people want to associate with and be part of a winner. Take our Chinese friends. Why are they coming here in such large numbers? Because they think we're losers and made a lot of mistakes? Or do they see something in the place that maybe even many native-born Americans don't see? Would we be better off if we infected our national psyche with a negative mindset or even that it's fine to just be mediocre? I don't think so.

    I can tell you one thing. There is at least one immigrant who thinks the U.S. is the greatest country on the planet: my wife. She made a decision to leave her home country and apply at a U.S. embassy for a visa. I mean, she could have picked any other country on the planet, some of which would have been more accommodating or made her jump through fewer hoops, but she chose the U.S. And if you ask her who's numero uno you can bet I already know her answer.
    Ok. As long as we leave it at the level of personal preferences, I'm fine with it. I'd be against a "worst country on the planet" competition too. Both our countries would probably do badly in that kind of poll.

    We can afford to be positive about our nations but other nations are still recovering from our atrocities and we need to keep that somewhere in our minds too, in case it happens again.

  5. #275
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    That sounds a little apologetic.
    I do not understand what you're saying here.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  6. #276
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-scot View Post
    I never knew that about Eisenhower - he sounds like a man of some principle. Well the dropping of those A-bombs has reaped a whirlwind ever since.
    General Dwight D. Eisenhower: "In 1945 ... , Secretary of War Stimson visited my headquarters in Germany, [and] informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act.... During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and second because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face.'
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  7. #277
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I do not understand what you're saying here.
    I'm sorry to have been unclear. If we are going to operate as the nations we love to criticise for a lack of regard for human life, then we should own it. But the US tends to advance a superior attitude of morality. The defender of democracy, rule of law, human rights and the like. The "shinning city on a hill". The fact is that the US has used its CIA to overthrow multiple governments, usually democratic left leaning governments and replacing them with right wing dictatorships. Imperialism, hegemony, and interference in the internal affairs of other nations. War crimes, well there's been plenty posted on that here already and it's not foreign to US policy. We shouldn't dismiss this as war is hell and **** happens, otherwise we loose the right to criticise others, or to prosecute others.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    General Dwight D. Eisenhower: "In 1945 ... , Secretary of War Stimson visited my headquarters in Germany, [and] informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act.... During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and second because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face.'
    Thanks for this. So was Truman ultimately the bad guy in this scenario?

    It's a very small situation in comparison with Hiroshima and Nagasaki but many believe that the Falklands War in 1982 was avoidable - see Britain's approach on the Falklands: neglect and hope for the best | UK news | The Guardian Comparisons with the Iraq War in 2003 were made in terms of how the Govt handed intelligence to overstate the need for war. Ultimately, a powerful leader, unaccountable to international opinion can choose to go to war on a pretext and the USA and Britain have done this too many times. I see no big change of heart on the horizon despite some mutterings about "mistakes" on Iraq.

  9. #279
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    My post was a rejection of the premise that Americans overstate their contribution to WW2.
    The USA did a lot but not any more than England or the USSR.

    We were not attacked by the Germans. ... Our involvement was not forced, it was voluntary.
    ummm... the Germans declared war on the USA first.

    At the end of the day, during Europe's darkest hour, of all the nations who were never attacked by Hitler, it was America who came to fight side by side with you. It wasn't the Canadians. It wasn't the Brazilians.
    Yeah, the Canadians sure did and way before the USA did too

    It wasn't the Chinese. It wasn't the Swedes or the Swiss or the nations of the Middle East. It was the Americans.
    The Chinese were fighting for their lives against the Japanese... why, and more importantly HOW, would they go fight the Germans?
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  10. #280
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-scot View Post
    We can afford to be positive about our nations but other nations are still recovering from our atrocities and we need to keep that somewhere in our minds too, in case it happens again.
    Funny you mention that. My wife is from the Philippines. Here's an example of a country that was crapped on by the Spanish for 300 years, then was subjected to a brutal suppression of a guerrilla war over a fifteen year period by the Americans. It was the site of a horrific massacre committed by American soldiers that I'd wager 99.99% of Americans living today have never heard of (The "Massacre" and the Aftermath - US History Scene). And yet my wife's father, if he harbored any grudges, sure never let me know about it. In fact, he proudly served in the Commonwealth Army in the months before the Japanese invaded his island in the Spring of 1942 and then fought as a guerrilla against the Japanese for the duration of the war. It was this wartime service that ultimately permitted him to become a U.S. citizen. One thing that I found extraordinary was he harbored no ill will against the Japanese, even though their brutality cut close to home. I suppose if he was angry with anyone it was with himself for beheading a Catholic priest with a sugarcane machete, but then that's another story.
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