View Poll Results: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

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  • Yes, America is the greatest Country.

    36 62.07%
  • I agree with Will.

    22 37.93%
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Thread: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

  1. #261
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Oh I know. My point was that your link was a thumb nail sketch of it. There's far more material documenting war crimes, imperialism, CIA atrocities, etc.
    Sorry. Thanks for the clarification. I agree with your points.

  2. #262
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    To you any act of war is a war crime. Thereby you basically legitimize war crimes. But in your urge to demonize the US that is of course a small price to pay.
    I never said that any act of war is a war crime. In my book, an invasion is. Also a hugely disproportionate response to aggression is too. Britain and the US have consistently done these things, rarely apologised or changed their ways, and I fully expect them to continue in the same vein.

    You've not really acknowledged or rebutted the accusations against the US in the material that I've referred you to. I didn't make it up - it looks cogent and credible and I'm sure I can find corroboration. Is it not part of your idea of American "greatness" to deal honestly and openly with charges of war crimes levelled against the USA?

  3. #263
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-scot View Post
    I never said that any act of war is a war crime. In my book, an invasion is. Also a hugely disproportionate response to aggression is too. Britain and the US have consistently done these things, rarely apologised or changed their ways, and I fully expect them to continue in the same vein.

    You've not really acknowledged or rebutted the accusations against the US in the material that I've referred you to. I didn't make it up - it looks cogent and credible and I'm sure I can find corroboration. Is it not part of your idea of American "greatness" to deal honestly and openly with charges of war crimes levelled against the USA?
    You confuse propaganda with facts or arguments.

  4. #264
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-scot View Post
    The issue is that any use of the A-bomb would have killed vast numbers of civilians, even if the ostensible aim was to take out a military installation. These weapons cannot be used with a sense of proportion and are therefore fundamentally immoral. The civilian of bombing of Dresden by the Brits was also a war crime - it flattened a living city and not just military targets.

    The definition of war crimes was much debated after the war and clarified in international conventions. But this has not stopped the USA from causing huge numbers of civilian deaths in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Iraq and Afghanistan, for example. Its mass use of advanced heavy weaponry makes this unavoidable. So war crimes continue unabated, unacknowledged and unpunished. Meanwhile, some Americans continue to think that their country is the "best" or "greatest" and ignore its crimes against humanity, and future generations are destined to repeat the horrors of the past.
    And, it wasn't until 1975 that the US even acknowledged that many of the actions taken in WW11, should be considered war crimes. But as I pointed out earlier, Curtis LeMay new it at the time. And general/president eisenhower stated that he was opposed to the use of the two bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki on two points. One, that Japan was already prepared to surrender and they weren't needed, and two, he hated to see the US be the First Nation to use the awful weapon.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  5. #265
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Enjoy your delusion. I shall not join you as I am not delusional.
    Right. Mali deserves a trophy, too.
    Нава́льный 2018

  6. #266
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-scot View Post
    Since there's still a few people on this thread who persist with the notion that the USA is objectively the best country in the world despite making some "mistakes", here's an interesting Wikipedia article about US war crimes for your perusal.

    I have a hard time figuring out who didn't make "mistakes." Japan (imperialism, WWII atrocities), Britain (imperialism, slavery, suppression of uprisings in colonies), Netherlands (imperialism, slavery), France (imperialism, slavery) China (Mao, Tibet, etc.), Italy (imperialism), Russia (imperialism; Soviet Union--Stalin), Germany (imperialism; WWII atrocities, e.g. "Final Solution"), Denmark (imperialism, slave trade), Norway (slave trade), Spain (imperialism, slavery, destruction of indigenous American peoples), Portugal (slavery, imperialism). Even non-aggressive Switzerland has blood on its hands. It did a shameful job of being Hitler's banker and stealing Jewish assets.

    So that leaves us with what? San Marino?


    USA--#1!
    Нава́льный 2018

  7. #267
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Of course the USA is the greatest nation to Americans. Just as Canada is the greatest nation to Canadians. And so on. There is nothing wrong with holding that belief as long as it isnt forced onto anyone else.

    Its like football teams, a fan believes their team is the best. Even if they are not the best, the fan isnt making a judgement of other teams they are just being loyal to their team. Just the same I think that the USA is the greatest nation on the planet that ever was. If a person makes the same claim about their country I dont scoff at them I just understand their point of view and applaud it. I mean why shouldnt a citizen support their own country? That is where the speech in the video fails and sounds more like a brat who didnt get his way.

    Wills speech as delivered was in a manipulative fashion. It was designed to shock the listener and then real them into his point of view. It is a jaded view of the country, and a lordy ageism induced rant that is nothing more than pessimistic ramblings. It is a politically left biased tromp of hyper partisan crap. It was right up there with the techniques used by shock jock radio personalities. The choir will sit glued to the tv set and the those that Aaron Sorkin pissed off were there to rant and rave at Aaron Sorkin. In the end the format wasnt enough. The show was cancelled.

    Wills/Aaron Sorkins speech was Machiavellian Paradigm of a sorts geared towards Americans to prod us in a certain direction. It was straight out of Bernie Sanders playbook. But rest assured that any of the nay sayers would be beating the greatest nation chest montra if their ideological version of a nation was installed.

  8. #268
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    no vote, I agree with no man .
    "the greatest country" .. childish .. jingoistic .. So open to definitions of "greatest" .
    Top candidates would be Switzerland or Norway .. or Japan ..However, neither have our problems with minorities and intolerance.

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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    You confuse propaganda with facts or arguments.
    Are you saying that the words of John Kerry and the Nuremburg prosecutor that the USA is guilty of war crimes is "propaganda"? Anyone can say the word "propaganda" to easily dismiss uncomfortable truths which challenge the alleged "greatness" of their country. If that's all you can come up with, then that's a shame.

  10. #270
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    Re: Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    And, it wasn't until 1975 that the US even acknowledged that many of the actions taken in WW11, should be considered war crimes. But as I pointed out earlier, Curtis LeMay new it at the time. And general/president eisenhower stated that he was opposed to the use of the two bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki on two points. One, that Japan was already prepared to surrender and they weren't needed, and two, he hated to see the US be the First Nation to use the awful weapon.
    I never knew that about Eisenhower - he sounds like a man of some principle. Well the dropping of those A-bombs has reaped a whirlwind ever since.

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