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Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

Is America the greatest Country anymore? Or do you agree with Will?

  • Total voters
    57
Anglo-scot said:
That's becoming a theme on this thread - just dismissing evidence out of hand which refers to widespread killings of civilians by the US. I was suggesting that we take one of the topics listed on the website and discuss it. I conclude that this is too difficult for people who are intent on maintaining that the USA is the "greatest" country.
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Haha, there's a dozen DP posters that dismiss any source that destroys their position, regularly. It's not just this thread.
 
Cliffhanger said:
Maybe the ones who believe that our country is not the greatest,would be best suited to find another country to live in.Funny how if were not that great of a country,Illegal immigrants wouldn't be dying to reach our soil.
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Well, let the right tell it and Obama has destroyed it, shelved the constitution, is militarily taking over Texas, is giving nukes to Iran, Europe to Russia. Apparently it's not the good old days anymore.
 
Cliffhanger said:
Maybe the ones who believe that our country is not the greatest,would be best suited to find another country to live in.Funny how if were not that great of a country,Illegal immigrants wouldn't be dying to reach our soil.
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The US has a nett migration rate of +2.4 per 1000. That places it 40th in the world. Per capita it receives fewer immigrants than Canada, Australia, Spain, the UK and a whole host more. I know this spoils the narrative somewhat.
 
Leo said:
OTOH, perhaps the ones who don't believe your country is the greatest are those whom you should encourage the most to stay. Perfection has not yet been attained in this world, but those who see the imperfections in our respective societies are the only ones who are likely to improve those societies. "I am the greatest!" is a mindless and complacent attitude which removes any motivation for improvement.

And may I remind you that 'illegal immigrants' - known as 'refugees' in the civilised world - are dying to reach any country, American, European, or Australasian, wherein they may be safe, not commercially enslaved, and not starve to death.
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And Americans are leaving in record numbers.

While the United States of America was at one point (and largely still is) a magnet for foreigners in search of work, the statistics makes it clear that an opposite trend is quickly picking up steam.

"There's a feeling among more entrepreneurial Americans that if you really want to get anything done, you have to get out of the country and away from the depressing atmosphere," Bob Adams of America Wave tells Reuters. “There's a sense of lost direction, so more people are looking for locations that offer more hope about the future."

Many of those leaving the US have job skills that would transfer quite well in the American market. Instead, however, they chose to bring those out of the States, attracted instead to opportunities elsewhere.

http://rt.com/usa/leaving-us-america-country-289/

Why is Tina Turner switching from American to Swiss citizenship? The legendary singer, a longtime Zurich resident, told the Blick newspaper that she has been very happy in Switzerland and “can’t imagine a better place to live.”

http://world.time.com/2013/01/31/mi...rking-abroad-are-ditching-their-citizenships/

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_diaspora
 
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Anglo-scot said:
That's becoming a theme on this thread - just dismissing evidence out of hand which refers to widespread killings of civilians by the US. I was suggesting that we take one of the topics listed on the website and discuss it. I conclude that this is too difficult for people who are intent on maintaining that the USA is the "greatest" country.
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Get used to it. 'Hate site' is a very common slur. I take it as an admission of defeat, unless they can point to something very specific that invalidates the content.

List of countries by migration rate
 
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Andalublue said:
Get used to it. 'Hate site' is a very common slur. I take it as an admission of defeat, unless they can point to something very specific that invalidates the content.

List of countries by migration rate
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I agree. There's an absence of reasoning ("It's a hate site / propaganda site because....what?"). But we're into the territory of the American imperial identity cult, where reasoning fails. The "greatness" of America is axiomatic in this cult - it just "is", and its truth can't be questioned, otherwise, .... something bad will happen.
 
Cliffhanger said:
Maybe the ones who believe that our country is not the greatest,would be best suited to find another country to live in.Funny how if were not that great of a country,Illegal immigrants wouldn't be dying to reach our soil.
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OK but be fair: if they didn't know that believing that "the USA is the greatest" is expected of Americans before they arrived, then it's not fair to tell them the news later on and expect them to change instantly. Since coming to the USA, they may have formed a more complex view of America - good things, and bad things, all mixed in. There must be literally tens of millions of people who have strayed down this road unwittingly.

Perhaps you've hit on the need for immigration reform here - make the recognition of American "greatness" an entry requirement. As for those already in the USA, some sort of re-education programme is probably required. What do you think?
 
Montecresto said:
And Americans are leaving in record numbers.

While the United States of America was at one point (and largely still is) a magnet for foreigners in search of work, the statistics makes it clear that an opposite trend is quickly picking up steam.

"There's a feeling among more entrepreneurial Americans that if you really want to get anything done, you have to get out of the country and away from the depressing atmosphere," Bob Adams of America Wave tells Reuters. “There's a sense of lost direction, so more people are looking for locations that offer more hope about the future."

Many of those leaving the US have job skills that would transfer quite well in the American market. Instead, however, they chose to bring those out of the States, attracted instead to opportunities elsewhere.

Americans leaving US in record numbers ? RT USA

Why is Tina Turner switching from American to Swiss citizenship? The legendary singer, a longtime Zurich resident, told the Blick newspaper that she has been very happy in Switzerland and “can’t imagine a better place to live.”

Why Americans Working Abroad Are Ditching Their U.S. Citizenships | TIME.com

American diaspora - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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I can imagine Tina Turner would do well at Alpine yodelling.
 
Anglo-scot said:
That's becoming a theme on this thread - just dismissing evidence out of hand which refers to widespread killings of civilians by the US. I was suggesting that we take one of the topics listed on the website and discuss it. I conclude that this is too difficult for people who are intent on maintaining that the USA is the "greatest" country.
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It's a whacko nutjob site. It is basically throwing a ton of **** on the walls and hoping something sticks. No serious adult is going to take it seriously. I look at that site in much the same way I look at the troofer 9/11/01 sites that think the US government orchestrated the terrorist attacks of 9/11/01.
 
ObamacareFail said:
It's a whacko nutjob site. It is basically throwing a ton of **** on the walls and hoping something sticks. No serious adult is going to take it seriously. I look at that site in much the same way I look at the troofer 9/11/01 sites that think the US government orchestrated the terrorist attacks of 9/11/01.
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Ok - I can find you another site. But you've dismissed two of the sites I've mentioned and not dealt with the Wikipedia pages I've linked to. Are you seriously willing to look at the issue of allegedly huge peacetime casualties from America's military interventions since WW2, in the context of determining American "greatness"? I don't think you want to go there because you just want to continue thinking America is the "greatest" and evidence to the contrary just makes you feel uncomfortable. But prove me wrong.
 
Anglo-scot said:
Ok - I can find you another site. But you've dismissed two of the sites I've mentioned and not dealt with the Wikipedia pages I've linked to. Are you seriously willing to look at the issue of allegedly huge peacetime casualties from America's military interventions since WW2, in the context of determining American "greatness"? I don't think you want to go there because you just want to continue thinking America is the "greatest" and evidence to the contrary just makes you feel uncomfortable. But prove me wrong.
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Just keep it real. Military interventions do not translate into war crimes. And war is hell. People die in wars. Just leave out the whacko nutjob web sites. And it would be wise to avoid links to wikipedia as well. Considering that the material in Wiki can be edited by the readers, it's more of a blog then a factual news site.

P.S. America is the greatest.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Just keep it real. Military interventions do not translate into war crimes.
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They do not, but events such as My Lai, Fallujah, and Abou Ghraibe, need no translation.

ObamacareFail said:
P.S. America is the greatest.
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I am sure that is a conclusion arrive at objectively, and with due self-deprecation - but the greatest what?
 
Leo said:
They do not, but events such as My Lai, Fallujah, and Abou Ghraibe, need no translation.
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Misconduct by certain military personnel occurs in every army and in every conflict.
 
LeoVlaming said:
Misconduct by certain military personnel occurs in every army and in every conflict.
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Very true, but when such misconduct starts in 1901 with the massacre of Filipino civilians -

Editorial_cartoon_about_Jacob_Smith%27s_retaliation_for_Balangiga.gif


"I want no prisoners. I wish you to kill and burn; the more you kill and burn, the better it will please me... The interior of Samar must be made a howling wilderness... "

— Gen. Jacob H. Smith

And continues along these lines -

MyLai1.jpg


"A small child came out ... like he was kneeling down to find his mother, and some GI just finished him."

" ... soldiers gathered these women and children together. After taking this photo Habearle turned, and heard automatic fire. From the corner of his eye, he saw "all the bodies falling over ..."

Evidence from Official Army photographer Ron Haeberle.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/photo-gallery/mylai-massacre-evidence/

As late as September 2010, American soldiers were still murdering the inhabitants of Fallujah, including an eighty five year old man and seven souls described as “youngsters.”
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*Fallujah war crimes — white phosphorus chemical, depleted uranium, thermobaric bombs — graphic images fuel-air weapons********* Bush U.S. military and War Crimes*in Iraq*********The WE News Archives*

This is organised butchery and war crimes, not a case of 'a few bad apples'.

So don't tell me about being 'the greatest'. Save your jingoism for the successfully indoctrinated.
 
Leo said:
Very true, but when such misconduct starts in 1901 with the massacre of Filipino civilians -

Editorial_cartoon_about_Jacob_Smith%27s_retaliation_for_Balangiga.gif


"I want no prisoners. I wish you to kill and burn; the more you kill and burn, the better it will please me... The interior of Samar must be made a howling wilderness... "

— Gen. Jacob H. Smith

And continues along these lines -

MyLai1.jpg


"A small child came out ... like he was kneeling down to find his mother, and some GI just finished him."

" ... soldiers gathered these women and children together. After taking this photo Habearle turned, and heard automatic fire. From the corner of his eye, he saw "all the bodies falling over ..."

Evidence from Official Army photographer Ron Haeberle.

Photo Gallery . My Lai . American Experience . WGBH | PBS

*Fallujah war crimes — white phosphorus chemical, depleted uranium, thermobaric bombs — graphic images fuel-air weapons********* Bush U.S. military and War Crimes*in Iraq*********The WE News Archives*

This is organised butchery and war crimes, not a case of 'a few bad apples'.

So don't tell me about being 'the greatest'. Save your jingoism for the successfully indoctrinated.
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Yes, I understand you are more interested in propaganda than in facts.
 
Andalublue said:
When you demonstrate that you know what a fact is, we'll discuss the distinction between the two.
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You really want to go down that path again?
I'll give you a fact: Under Angela Merkel (whose policies according to you stifle growth), Germany has grown its GDP every year above the EU-average (with the exception of 2009). Of course according to you the German economy is grounding to a halth, which again is demonstrably not true but just more propaganda-lies on your part.
 
LeoVlaming said:
You really want to go down that path again?
I'll give you a fact: Under Angela Merkel (whose policies according to you stifle growth), Germany has grown its GDP every year above the EU-average (with the exception of 2009). Of course according to you the German economy is grounding to a halth, which again is demonstrably not true but just more propaganda-lies on your part.
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When you can provide data to back-up your assertions, let me know.
 
Andalublue said:
When you can provide data to back-up your assertions, let me know.
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These are facts. That you are too lazy or too stupid to loo, them up is your problem, not mine.
 
LeoVlaming said:
Yes, I understand you are more interested in propaganda than in facts.
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The massacres in the Philippines, the My Lai massacre, and the use of white phosphorus at Fallujah are well documented facts. These are not the typical acts of a superior society, so where is the propaganda?

And ad hominem is no substitute for debate.
 
LeoVlaming said:
These are facts. That you are too lazy or too stupid to loo, them up is your problem, not mine.
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As Dave Fagan would say, "your in the toilet on this, reach up and pull the chain"!!
 
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