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Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon

  • Total voters
    133
Thrilla said:
I guess that would depend on whether or not those retirees retained their US citizenship or not.... if they were US citizens , but living in Texas, they would still get their benefits...if the chose to become Texas citizens, they be cut off.
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I would think that if you have lived in Texas for at least a year, then you are a Texas citizen. I don't live in Texas, but it was a question, none the less, and I would think that if a person is a US government worker or retiree, they would not be interested in secession, since they took an oath the day they were employed to uphold, support, and defend the United States and its Constitution. Things are a lot different now than in the 1850's and 60's.
 
Thrilla said:
nope, it was a stupid post...why would i like it?

I'm not pretending anything...this is like the 3rd time you blatantly lied like that... you would best served not to get the reputation as a liar.
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Why can't you answer the topic of Texas Democratic Hard Blue regions refusing to secede from the US? Why can't you talk about that? You seem to just call people names and cuss at people when this is brought up.

 
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bicycleman said:
I would think that if you have lived in Texas for at least a year, then you are a Texas citizen. I don't live in Texas, but it was a question, none the less, and I would think that if a person is a US government worker or retiree, they would not be interested in secession, since they took an oath the day they were employed to uphold, support, and defend the United States and its Constitution. Things are a lot different now than in the 1850's and 60's.
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living here a year might make you a resident.. but residency isn't the same as citizenship.

I know quite a few retirees in South America... they are residents of Colombia, but US citizens... they get their retirement benefits just fine.
why would it be any different if Texas became it's own nation?

I don't know if these retirees would vote for secession or not..or for what reason... individual choices are kinda worthless to attempt to address.

and yes, things are a lot different now...which is why it strikes me as odd that folks immediately revert to civil war arguments when talking about the subject.
 
Ryan5 said:
Why can't you answer the topic of Texas Democratic Hard Blue regions refusing to secede from the US? Why can't you talk about that? You seem to just call people names and cuss at people when this is brought up.

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I don't address that topic because it's irrelevant.

had you read the OP, you would understand Texas had a vote and overwhelmingly voted to secede
you bringing up folks who wouldn't support secession doesn't matter one bit.... in this hypothetical, in this thread, your people lost the vote to secede.

if you want to discuss a wholly different scenario... feel free to create you own thread.
 
Thrilla said:
I don't address that topic because it's irrelevant.

had you read the OP, you would understand Texas had a vote and overwhelmingly voted to secede
you bringing up folks who wouldn't support secession doesn't matter one bit.... in this hypothetical, in this thread, your people lost the vote to secede.

if you want to discuss a wholly different scenario... feel free to create you own thread.
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Good man. The ability to think abstractly, a subset of which includes ithe ability to conduct thought experiments and deal in hypotheticals, is a hallmark of higher intelligence.
 
Thrilla said:
so not having enough land is your reason why you don't believe a people should be able to determine the government they live under?

i guess that works in strictly utilitarian terms... it's just odd to me, as an American, to come across folks who oppose self determination.
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Self determination is something that sounds good in theory. And maybe it is good for a tiny nation of four million people living along the East Coast.

It makes no sense in a continent sized nation with one third of a billion people. .
 
Dayton3 said:
Self determination is something that sounds good in theory. And maybe it is good for a tiny nation of four million people living along the East Coast.

It makes no sense in a continent sized nation with one third of a billion people. .
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it makes sense in any nation of any size, anywhere on the planet.
hell, it's the cardinal principle behind international law... it's been codified by the UN.

it's , you know, kind of a big deal.:cool:
 
Thrilla said:
I don't address that topic because it's irrelevant.

had you read the OP, you would understand Texas had a vote and overwhelmingly voted to secede
you bringing up folks who wouldn't support secession doesn't matter one bit.... in this hypothetical, in this thread, your people lost the vote to secede.

if you want to discuss a wholly different scenario... feel free to create you own thread.
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I'm not an American but you can look at the Northern Ireland example. That a lagre mayority of the Irish wanted indepence and got it. But you also hade a mayority against indepence in the north and also UK hade a intresent of keeping that area. So North Ireland became still a part of UK. Constisting of mostly areas against indepence but also some for indepence but with a total mayority in North Ireland for being part of the UK. That if Texas would want to suceed and be allowed maybee USA would demand South Texas constisting of the entire boarder region be a state in the Union because a mayority their would want to stay in the union?
 
I fully support the right of anyone in Texas who isn't happy in the USA to get out of the USA by the fastest available transportation.

No one should be forced to stay where they're not happy.

I hope that the door doesn't hit any of them in the butt.

:lamo
 
Thrilla said:
living here a year might make you a resident.. but residency isn't the same as citizenship.

I know quite a few retirees in South America... they are residents of Colombia, but US citizens... they get their retirement benefits just fine.
why would it be any different if Texas became it's own nation?

I don't know if these retirees would vote for secession or not..or for what reason... individual choices are kinda worthless to attempt to address.

and yes, things are a lot different now...which is why it strikes me as odd that folks immediately revert to civil war arguments when talking about the subject.
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Good points. Another thing that a lot of these secessionists aren't thinking of is if Texas becomes its own country, there go all those federal subsidies, which means that Texas would have to levy higher taxes to make up the difference.
 
bicycleman said:
Good points. Another thing that a lot of these secessionists aren't thinking of is if Texas becomes its own country, there go all those federal subsidies, which means that Texas would have to levy higher taxes to make up the difference.
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There also goes

1) One third of the U.S. power grid
2) Most American refining and petro chemical capability.
3) A sizable chunk of the U.S. military.
 
Thrilla said:
it makes sense in any nation of any size, anywhere on the planet.
hell, it's the cardinal principle behind international law... it's been codified by the UN.

it's , you know, kind of a big deal.:cool:
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It is a horrendously bad idea. Human beings should learn to live together rather than requiring their neat little enclaves among their "own kind".
 
Paschendale said:
I kinda have to agree here. People should be able to decide for themselves how they will be governed.

The question is, would it require overwhelming support from the rest of the country, too? I'm not certain either way. Fortunately, it's not going to be an issue either way.
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I don't think so...however it would have to have overwhelming support in Texas. I don't think it will happen anytime soon. I doubt that this nation will be stupid enough to elect another tyrant like Obama any time soon.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Texans.
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Then no. Texas is not the stand alone land that they sometimes think they are. We are a republic and much investment in Texas belongs to the other 49 states just as Texas has a stake in the rest of the country.
 
Bergslagstroll said:
I'm not an American but you can look at the Northern Ireland example. That a lagre mayority of the Irish wanted indepence and got it. But you also hade a mayority against indepence in the north and also UK hade a intresent of keeping that area. So North Ireland became still a part of UK. Constisting of mostly areas against indepence but also some for indepence but with a total mayority in North Ireland for being part of the UK. That if Texas would want to suceed and be allowed maybee USA would demand South Texas constisting of the entire boarder region be a state in the Union because a mayority their would want to stay in the union?
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I live in Texas and have all my life and I can tell you Texas GOP has the same fervent ideological lunacy as California DNC or NYC does. They're 100% partisan, closed minded people (Just like many SF/NYC/Chicago DNC) who don't factor in how things would actually play out at all.

(For instance, South Texas would choose to stay in the Union, yet these people hate that truth so much that they simply refuse to talk about it because it "messes up their plans" and they know it.) Not to mention all the major urban economic hubs of Texas, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin the state capital are dark blue and would also insist on staying.

Can you imagine that? Texas would vote to somehow peacefully secede with its capital refusing to do so as well as Houston and Dallas? It makes no sense.
 
Ryan5 said:
I live in Texas and have all my life and I can tell you Texas GOP has the same fervent ideological lunacy as California DNC or NYC does. They're 100% partisan, closed minded people (Just like many SF/NYC/Chicago DNC) who don't factor in how things would actually play out at all.

(For instance, South Texas would choose to stay in the Union, yet these people hate that truth so much that they simply refuse to talk about it because it "messes up their plans" and they know it.) Not to mention all the major urban economic hubs of Texas, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin the state capital are dark blue and would also insist on staying.

Can you imagine that? Texas would vote to somehow peacefully secede with its capital refusing to do so as well as Houston and Dallas? It makes no sense.
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dear lord :roll:... go look up the word "hypothetical" and stop whining.
 
bicycleman said:
Good points. Another thing that a lot of these secessionists aren't thinking of is if Texas becomes its own country, there go all those federal subsidies, which means that Texas would have to levy higher taxes to make up the difference.
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there would certainly be a restructuring of the tax system...no doubt about it.
as for federal subsidies... that goes both ways... Texas would no longer be sending federal taxes to DC... I'm fairly certain Texas , and it's citizens, send more to DC than they receive in subsidies.

there would necessarily be a whole lot of details to hash out before the split occurred...I'm not too sure anyone in Texas or DC is actually capable of hashing out those details....much like a lot of people on this forum , all they care about is party party party.... and with a lil race baiting thrown in for flavor.
 
Dayton3 said:
It is a horrendously bad idea. Human beings should learn to live together rather than requiring their neat little enclaves among their "own kind".
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you are free to have your opinion... but the planet has pretty much adopted self determination as a pinnacle principle.
 
ObamacareFail said:
I don't think so...however it would have to have overwhelming support in Texas. I don't think it will happen anytime soon. I doubt that this nation will be stupid enough to elect another tyrant like Obama any time soon.
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Don't forget the Mexican illegals, uh/er immigrants, who will be bamboozled into voting for Hillary, a tyrant in the making.
 
Ryan5 said:
I live in Texas and have all my life and I can tell you Texas GOP has the same fervent ideological lunacy as California DNC or NYC does. They're 100% partisan, closed minded people (Just like many SF/NYC/Chicago DNC) who don't factor in how things would actually play out at all.

(For instance, South Texas would choose to stay in the Union, yet these people hate that truth so much that they simply refuse to talk about it because it "messes up their plans" and they know it.) Not to mention all the major urban economic hubs of Texas, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin the state capital are dark blue and would also insist on staying.

Can you imagine that? Texas would vote to somehow peacefully secede with its capital refusing to do so as well as Houston and Dallas? It makes no sense.
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if a state chose to secede it would have to come from the people...by convention or direct vote....as the southern states did...its an all or none affair.
 
bicycleman said:
Don't forget the Mexican illegals, uh/er immigrants, who will be bamboozled into voting for Hillary, a tyrant in the making.
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Ofcourse that's all the democrats want them for is perceived democrat votes bought and paid for with welfare entitlements. However I don't think it would happen soon enough for "Hollery 2016".
 
ernst barkmann said:
if a state chose to secede it would have to come from the people...by convention or direct vote....as the southern states did...its an all or none affair.
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Yes we all understand that. However the thread hypothetical is impossible in Texas.

Large portions of Texas are generational-Hard-Blue-Democrat-Voters with openly professed deep animosities towards Texas GOP. They will never leave the US. So the premise that they'd somehow "Change their minds and join their loathed GOP enemies" is deeply flawed and deceptive.

The thread premise is the equivalent to believing that Los Angeles and San Francisco would choose to secede from the US with California conservatives. This is outright deception.





Now that said, I (personally) believe and have always believed that in the next 100 years for sure racially and politically polarized Southern and Western states such as Texas, California, Arizona and a few others will have massive geopolitical-racial turmoil to say the least that may make the premise of this thread irrelevant frankly. There may be a much more bloody US civil war x2 that makes this thread and the idea of secession largely irrelevant. I seriously believe this is not just possible but likely in next 100 years.
 
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Ryan5 said:
Yes we all understand that. However the thread hypothetical is impossible in Texas.

Large portions of Texas are generational-Hard-Blue-Democrat-Voters with openly professed deep animosities towards Texas GOP. They will never leave the US. So the premise that they'd somehow "Change their minds" in flawed.
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i did not mean they would change their minds....in order for the state to secede, a convention of the people must be held, or a vote of the people.

people with the opposite views would vote, and the loser would have to accept the results.
 
ernst barkmann said:
i did not mean they would change their minds....in order for the state to secede, a convention of the people must be held, or a vote of the people.

people with the opposite views would vote, and the loser would have to accept the results.
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Well and you're a perfect example of the type of person I mean to showcase as who exists in Southern states like Texas. Hard Right and Hard left and little to nothing in between. Those are also split racially near perfectly in accordance with left and right, which is why I do believe a US civil war is likely in said Southern states. (to which who knows what would happen, certainly Texas wouldn't secede, yet I imagine the country may never recover in terms of internal harmony seeing as I surmise that this civil war would be along racial lines instead of political ones ultimately.



The thread premise is silly though. Texas either way will always be part of US and if it ever did secede the US would simply kill all the secessionists and retake the US.
 
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Ryan5 said:
The supporters of secessions notions that "The US would allow one of its largest economies to leave" says it all about this entire ideas intellectual capacity.

This hypothetical is second grade level naivety at best to how things would play out.
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You forgot racist.
 
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