View Poll Results: Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon

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  • Yes

    69 51.49%
  • No

    61 45.52%
  • Bumbershoot

    4 2.99%
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Thread: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

  1. #961
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    wait... " if Texas needs oil"?..I'm thinking Texas already has oil....and natural gas.... and refineries...and the pipelines to deliver it to the US after they purchase it ( though strategic reserves are probably already bought and paid for and would need to be guaranteed for delivery upon demand)
    you're thinking is backwards.

    on the SS issue, I doubt the US would continue to pay benefits for any great length of time... though it's possible to pay for current living recipients under a grandfather clause of some sort.

    Canada, the 5th largest supplier in the world - can easily continue to supply the US without Texas' oil. Texas could do like ISIS and start selling oil much cheaper. But in the end it would be a disadvantage for the long-haul. Texas buys all of it's drill equipment from outside the state. And you can bet that the cost for equipment and replacement parts will spiral as Texas drillers demands for equipment goes up.

    Right now the Texas Permian Basin Oil revenues pump well over a Billion dollars a year into State University coffers. That's gonna hurt Texas State Universities when that money has to be diverted.

    But really ...just try your best to consider:

    Like any production line operation. Somebody may come up with a brilliant way to make one portion of the line work a 1000% more efficient - only later to find out that other parts of the line have been negatively impacted and the the bottom line production rate is reduced. Think about it.

    Just saying...

    There can't be a SS in the Republic of Texas. There is no revenue collection system with any type of reserves that would even come close to being sufficient to nearly 10% of the US's population.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    ok, so you were trolling... fair enough

    I don't need a lesson in grammar.. it was a mistake... unfurl your panties.
    No, I wasn't trolling - that's a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them. My post was made with the express intention of making people - or at least my fellow liberals - laugh. That's why I used 'frack' as a PUN.

    And be careful about using the 'trolling' accusation - the DP PC police will ding you for it as they have me in the past. I'm glad they're there (and didja notice there's no 'their', there?).

    So there!

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    No. And if they attempted to do so we should crush them like we did in 1865 along with the rest of the traitors.
    down for you is up

  4. #964
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Canada, the 5th largest supplier in the world - can easily continue to supply the US without Texas' oil. Texas could do like ISIS and start selling oil much cheaper. But in the end it would be a disadvantage for the long-haul. Texas buys all of it's drill equipment from outside the state. And you can bet that the cost for equipment and replacement parts will spiral as Texas drillers demands for equipment goes up.
    yes, Canada has oil too... but as Democrats and liberals are opposed to transporting their oil ( assuming democrats/liberal would magically form a one party state in the absence of Texas), it would seem Texas would be the wiser choice to purchase from, as the delivery infrastructure is already in place.

    and yes, the purchase of equipment would still be handled by out of state firms.... such is the nature of trade.. .even international trade.
    why are you assuming that the current equipment would magically disappear cause a demand shock on the equipment market?.. i'm not following where this demand shock would originate

    Right now the Texas Permian Basin Oil revenues pump well over a Billion dollars a year into State University coffers. That's gonna hurt Texas State Universities when that money has to be diverted.
    sure, it could hurt... though i find it odd that you feel the only this oil revenue can be used to fund universities....

    But really ...just try your best to consider:

    Like any production line operation. Somebody may come up with a brilliant way to make one portion of the line work a 1000% more efficient - only later to find out that other parts of the line have been negatively impacted and the the bottom line production rate is reduced. Think about it.
    true enough...Capitalists are rather skilled at mitigating persuasive negative impacts, and doing such is a non-stop element to any production based firm/industry.

    Just saying...
    that all any of us are doing

    There can't be a SS in the Republic of Texas. There is no revenue collection system with any type of reserves that would even come close to being sufficient to nearly 10% of the US's population.
    why do you feel that it's impossible for Texas to raise revenues to administer their state?... i mean, taxation of some sort is a given... and i'm not sure why you seem to believe why it's impossible for Texas when every single developed country on the face of the planet does it?
    if Texas decided to retain current federal taxes, but levy them at the state level ( the new national level, more accurately,) it would gain an additional 220 billion, per year ( based on 2012 stats)..which is 2.5x the amount of current state expenditures.
    cut those rats in half, and budget concerns are addressed adequately, in terms of raw dollars at current expenditures levels.
    it's obvious, to me anyways, that a deficit would occur, at least initially... but coupled with chartered banks, sovereign currency, and credit guarantees based on such.. the deficit would be manageable.... and beneficial.

    in short, revenues are , in all reality, easy to address.... once you get past the idea that it's impossible for a nation to raise it's own revenues.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    well, i have no idea what the far right wants (nor do you).. but I'm not talking about making it easy whatsoever..... I think it takes much more than simply saying "we're out" ... it must take much more than that to ensure an fair and amicable break.... and no, that wouldn't be easy at all.
    you're talking about making it a punitive deal... when it's already a difficult negotiation to even bring the split to fruition.... there's no need to whip the runaways slaves,when there's a much better way to handling things.

    this isn't the 1860's... the initial split would necessarily be handled by current mechanisms, such as a 2/3rds vote in Congress after a referendum within the state itself.
    at this point in time, under current conditions, that would be an impossibility..... but in this hypothetical, it's already assumed the split occurred peacefully and amicably.
    This is the same as the 1860's and an effort to destroy the USA as we know it. Such efforts should indeed be looked at severely and things should be made as difficult as possible to those who would destroy the union. There is nothing AMICABLE about the destruction of a nation as we know it.
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    This is the same as the 1860's and an effort to destroy the USA as we know it. Such efforts should indeed be looked at severely and things should be made as difficult as possible to those who would destroy the union. There is nothing AMICABLE about the destruction of a nation as we know it.
    it's 2015, not 1860.... so your opinion is demonstrably false.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    it's 2015, not 1860.... so your opinion is demonstrably false.
    Your reading comprehension skills need a severe tune up. You need to learn what the phrase "this is the same" means and how it is different from getting a date wrong.
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  8. #968
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    yes, Canada has oil too... but as Democrats and liberals are opposed to transporting their oil ( assuming democrats/liberal would magically form a one party state in the absence of Texas), it would seem Texas would be the wiser choice to purchase from, as the delivery infrastructure is already in place.

    and yes, the purchase of equipment would still be handled by out of state firms.... such is the nature of trade.. .even international trade.
    why are you assuming that the current equipment would magically disappear cause a demand shock on the equipment market?.. i'm not following where this demand shock would originate

    sure, it could hurt... though i find it odd that you feel the only this oil revenue can be used to fund universities....

    true enough...Capitalists are rather skilled at mitigating persuasive negative impacts, and doing such is a non-stop element to any production based firm/industry.

    that all any of us are doing


    why do you feel that it's impossible for Texas to raise revenues to administer their state?... i mean, taxation of some sort is a given... and i'm not sure why you seem to believe why it's impossible for Texas when every single developed country on the face of the planet does it?
    if Texas decided to retain current federal taxes, but levy them at the state level ( the new national level, more accurately,) it would gain an additional 220 billion, per year ( based on 2012 stats)..which is 2.5x the amount of current state expenditures.
    cut those rats in half, and budget concerns are addressed adequately, in terms of raw dollars at current expenditures levels.
    it's obvious, to me anyways, that a deficit would occur, at least initially... but coupled with chartered banks, sovereign currency, and credit guarantees based on such.. the deficit would be manageable.... and beneficial.

    in short, revenues are , in all reality, easy to address.... once you get past the idea that it's impossible for a nation to raise it's own revenues.
    You are such a trusting soul, Thrilla. You think that that Texas is going to be admired and applauded by the Federal and all of the State governments for seceding when it won't be in the best interests of the Union. You act as though Texas is truly independent in most aspects. Man, Texas' mouth is stitched to the Federal Tit.

    How many times do you hear how fragile the SS system is and it's been in operation since the 30s. And in a blink of an eye, the moment secession begins the slate's been cleaned, the Republic of Texas' coffers will be ready to take on all of the challenges of SS, healthcare issues (well, unless we expect to see people laying in streets from serious health issues and Texas provides with a bus ticket to Oklahoma).

    And education...I'm not talking about just providing minimum education - but truly quality education. Never mind, won't happen in Texas. Texas public schools will most likely be turned into one giant parochial school...the religious sector is gonna really have to chip in. Bibles will a lot cheaper than text book. Military and Border security ain't gonna be cheap. But one of the most demanding cost to Texas over the next 20 years is highway/bridge infrastructure. It, like most states, they've all got infrastructure problems.

    I assure you that our only major port city, Houston...well, they will take some licks for a while. Import/Export rules will change.

    Other than oil, what commodities will support of the social needs?

    If the end goal is to create a Republic and at the same time purge the underclasses out of Texas...it might stand chance of surviving a couple of years longer.

    All I can say is: If I were to live long enough to see this come down - and be able to hang out for a few more decades...I don't really care if Texas splits. I'm fixed, man and I can move anywhere. I'm a native, would have to leave the Hill Country, but I wouldn't hesitate to be gone if Texas ever seceded.

    I must say...you're perspective is unique, but I still opine it is terminally unique.

    But we could both be extremely wrong...

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Your reading comprehension skills need a severe tune up. You need to learn what the phrase "this is the same" means and how it is different from getting a date wrong.
    so in your mind ....we're talking about Slavery and several southern states..... mmmmk.

    i don't share those delusions.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    While unlikely anytime too soon, it's not unthinkable that one day, Texas might vote to secede from the United States and re-establish itself as an independent nation.

    If done in a peaceful and democratic manner...that is, if the people of Texas overwhelmingly voted to withdraw from the U.S. In a referendum similar to the one recently held in Scotland, would you support the right of Texas to go her own way?
    Absolutely. No one should be forced to stay in the union if they don't want to. California should be able to go its own way as well, but first we need some mechanism to keep Lonestar from going to war with the Bear Flag Republic.
    "Those were lies, pure and simple."

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