View Poll Results: Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon

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  • Yes

    69 51.49%
  • No

    61 45.52%
  • Bumbershoot

    4 2.99%
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Thread: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Texas has the wealth, the know-how, and the population to more than hold their own. Besides, we defeated the Mexicans once before.
    Texas does not. Their would be A LOT of dependance upon the United States.

    At that point, all the US would have to do is embargo Texas completely until theyre forced to rejoin or suffer heavy losses.
    -----MOS 19D = cavalry scout = best damn MOS there is

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Things might be different if the 49 other states basically say, "Fine, secede, and please don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out."
    That would be the only legal way - by amending the Constitution.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    What currency would you use? And how much do you think it would be worth if you defaulted on your share of the US national debt? Ask Argentina and Greece how default, or the threat of it, affects your economy.
    I think Texas would be able to cope with that at least as well as an independent Scotland.

  4. #74
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    A - What is the legal basis for this? What provision in the Constitution gives any state the legal authority to leave? There is none. Texas can certainly vote to leave - the vote would not be legal and US could if it desired legally use force to keep Texas in the United States.

    B - Article IV Section 3




    C - Secession was tried once before. You really want to tempt fate again?
    sorry you are not correct

    in constitutional law...all powers in the constitution are federal..all other POWERS not delegated in the constitution are state, since there is no delegated powers to keep states in the union per the constitution, the power of leaving the union would be a state power.

    every state constitution in it states that the people have the right to alter of abolish the government they have.

    again there is no power per the constitution granted to the federal government to stop a state from leaving the union.

    article 4 section 3 deals with creating a state inside a state, as in the case of West Virginia

    May31st 1787..at the constitutional convention:A POWER WAS PROPOSED TO BE GRANTED TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT...that power is the power for the federal government to preserve the harmony of the union..........that power was DENIED!

    HERE IS THE TEXT OF THE CONVENTION.:

    The other clauses [FN10] giving powers necessary to preserve harmony among the States to negative all State laws contravening in the opinion of the Nat. Leg. the articles of union, down to the last clause, (the words "or any treaties subsisting under the authority of the Union," being added after the words "contravening &c. the articles of the Union," on motion of Dr. FRANKLIN) were agreed to witht. debate or dissent. The last clause of Resolution 6. [FN11] authorizing an exertion of the force of the whole agst. a delinquent State came next into consideration.

    Mr. MADISON, observed that the more he reflected on the use of force, the more he doubted the practicability, the justice and the efficacy of it when applied to people collectively and not individually. -A union of the States containing such an ingredient seemed to provide for its own destruction. The use of force agst. a State, would look more like a declaration of war, than an infliction of punishment, and would probably be considered by the party attacked as a dissolution of all previous compacts by which it might be bound. He hoped that such a system would be framed as might render this recourse [FN12] unnecessary, and moved that the clause be postponed. This motion was agreed to nem. con.

    The Committee then rose & the House

    Adjourned
    Last edited by Master PO; 04-29-15 at 10:44 AM.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    William Rawle, A View of the Constitution of the United States 295--304, 305--7 1829 (2d ed.)........

    William Rawle was George Washington's DA for the state of PENN

    The Union is an association of the people of republics; its preservation is calculated to depend on the preservation of those republics. The people of each pledge themselves to preserve that form of government in all. Thus each becomes responsible to the rest, that no other form of government shall prevail in it, and all are bound to preserve it in every one.

    But the mere compact, without the power to enforce it, would be of little value. Now this power can be no where so properly lodged, as in the Union itself. Hence, the term guarantee, indicates that the United States are authorized to oppose, and if possible, prevent every state in the Union from relinquishing the republican form of government, and as auxiliary means, they are expressly authorized and required to employ their force on the application of the constituted authorities of each state, "to repress domestic violence." If a faction should attempt to subvert the government of a state for the purpose of destroying its republican form, the paternal power of the Union could thus be called forth to subdue it.

    Yet it is not to be understood, that its interposition would be justifiable, if the people of a state should determine to retire from the Union, whether they adopted another or retained the same form of government, or if they should, with the express intention of seceding, expunge the representative system from their code, and thereby incapacitate themselves from concurring according to the mode now prescribed, in the choice of certain public officers of the United States.

    The principle of representation, although certainly the wisest and best, is not essential to the being of a republic, but to continue a member of the Union, it must be preserved, and therefore the guarantee must be so construed. It depends on the state itself to retain or abolish the principle of representation, because it depends on itself whether it will continue a member of the Union. To deny this right would be inconsistent with the principle on which all our political systems are founded, which is, that the people have in all cases, a right to determine how they will be governed.

    http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/found...s/a4_4s13.html

    This right must be considered as an ingredient in the original composition of the general government, which, though not expressed, was mutually understood, and the doctrine heretofore presented to the reader in regard to the indefeasible nature of personal allegiance, is so far qualified in respect to allegiance to the United States. It was observed, that it was competent for a state to make a compact with its citizens, that the reciprocal obligations of protection and allegiance might cease on certain events; and it was further observed, that allegiance would necessarily cease on the dissolution of the society to which it was due.

    The states, then, may wholly withdraw from the Union, but while they continue, they must retain the character of representative republics. Governments of dissimilar forms and principles cannot long maintain a binding coalition. "Greece," says Montesquieu, "was undone as soon as the king of Macedon obtained a seat in the amphyctionic council." It is probable, however, that the disproportionate force as well as the monarchical form of the new confederate had its share of influence in the event. But whether the historical fact supports the theory or not, the principle in respect to ourselves is unquestionable.

    Article 4, Section 4: William Rawle, A View of the Constitution of the United States 295--304, 305--7 1829 (2d ed.)

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    What currency would you use? And how much do you think it would be worth if you defaulted on your share of the US national debt? Ask Argentina and Greece how default, or the threat of it, affects your economy.
    Texas, as it stands today, would be the 14th largest economy on earth were it an independent nation. With our resources, population, and know-how, I would expect us to move up from there. Texas, unlike the Feds, runs a balanced budget and exercises fiscal restraint... So default would be unlikely. Things like what currency to use would work themselves out.

    What currency would Greece use if it left the EU? Texas is many times larger than Greece, both land wise, wealth wise, and in terms of population. Scotland too, for that matter. Where there's a will, there's a way

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    Europeans generally are perplexed by such superior forms of governing.
    As it would appear Americans are by such superior European forms of air defence, Mr Luftwaffe.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    Texas does not. Their would be A LOT of dependance upon the United States.

    At that point, all the US would have to do is embargo Texas completely until theyre forced to rejoin or suffer heavy losses.

    Good luck selling that to the U.S. public.

    "Umm yeah we're gonna embargo and starve out your friends and family members in Texas so we can have their oil...vote for me!!"

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    As it would appear Americans are by such superior European forms of air defence, Mr Luftwaffe.
    Luftwaffe is a generic term for Air Force. I can be referring to any Air Force I want.
    -----MOS 19D = cavalry scout = best damn MOS there is

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Good luck selling that to the U.S. public.

    "Umm yeah we're gonna embargo and starve out your friends and family members in Texas so we can have their oil...vote for me!!"

    *shrug* you'd be surprised where the dominoes fall.

    Connecticut embargoed over an RFRA. I can't imagine what other states would do in response to an attempt at secession.
    -----MOS 19D = cavalry scout = best damn MOS there is

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