View Poll Results: Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon

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  • Yes

    69 51.49%
  • No

    61 45.52%
  • Bumbershoot

    4 2.99%
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Thread: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

  1. #781
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    bwhahahaha!
    ...

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    This thread fascinates mostly because:::::::


    -It totally ignores Generational Democratic Party, Pro-Union regions of Texas that would never secede "peacefully"

    -It 100% ignores basic Texas economic facts that make secession entirely illogical to even the most stubborn person

    -It 100% ignores the fact that the US would never allow this to occur

    -It 100% ignores that the Rich Oil and Business interests that run Texas would never allow this to occur

    -It presumes that Texas is this rural "Jesus Bastion of Yesteryear" which it is extremely far from. One wonders what "Texas" these people even live in.


    I can't tell if this is a rich banker kids wet dream thread who drank a tad too much scotch or some rural cowboy religious Jesus yesteryear thread or some mix of both.
    None of the above. I posted the OP as a thought experiment, because I was interested to see how people weigh the sometimes opposing ideals of, on the one hand, self-determination, and on the other, national unity.

    Our nation was founded on the principle if self-determination and secession from the British Crown, and yet we fought a civil war over the idea of unification at all cost in spite of regional differences. I find the apparent dichotomy intriguing, and I find the discussion that is taking place on this thread an interesting barometer of the current disposition of the American Public.

    In other words, Americans are patriotic and we love freedom...but what happens when the ideals of patriotism and freedom are at odds? Which instinct wins out?

    The 50/50 poll results are as expected and incredibly fascinating

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Thomas Jefferson was one of the American men who fought for their freedom and rights in the U.S. Revolutionary War.

    But not for the freedom and rights of women and Black slaves.

    Think about that a little bit.




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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atiya View Post
    Well now, that's a matter of one's perception and IMO, most improbable unless you're suffering from extreme egocentricity. You refer to progressives/Liberals as "far left loonies." That expression reveals disdain for that particular group; hence a form of contempt. Being human, all share in these emotions at one time or another, unless you're suffering from a psychopathic personality.
    I don't refer to liberal/progressives as "far left loonies"... in fact, I hold great respect and reverence for the Liberal ideology and hope and pray that one day self-professed liberals actaully start to espouse and practice liberalism once again.

    I refer more to the socialists and communist-lite folks who inaccurately and dishonesty call themselves liberals/progressives, and continually espouse policy platforms and idea which are well outside the established principles in this country.....
    but ,yes, I do hold a certian contempt for such folks, though I don't hate them.
    If you wanted to grasp my true emotion pertining to these people, picture a dad or mom saying to a child " I'm very disappointed in you...now go to your room and think about what you have done".

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Ironic in what way?
    In that you support the opposite.

  6. #786
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    In that you support the opposite.
    It depends how you think of the term Freedom From All. Ones bias can deeply change its meaning.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Lol Take a look again: http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1064621701



    Those that think that secession is the way to fix anything, dont understand at all what the Constitution created. Nor do they understand the philosophy behind the US Constitution. But lets be honest the secessionists only see the US Constitution as a roadblock to their fantasies of imposing their will on all Americans. That is the point of neo-Confederates; domination once and for all.

    I did not quote you make any reference to your name or anything close unless you consider yourself a neo-confederate. SO are you a neo-confederate? If you are a neo-confederate then what I said fully applies to you. If not then why the hell did you act as if I were talking about your position?
    that was a dishonest repsonse... you damn well know what post i was responding to, and yet you pretend it was rebuttal a different post of yours?... serisously?
    Who's speculating? The point of the Constitution is that it forms a Union. All this talk about the "Constitution being perverted beyond recognition" is double talk. You cant be supporting the Constitution while asserting to destroy the union. That line is just a lie and a excuse.


    Either way you paint it secessionists are anti-American and should be shot for being the treasonists that they are IMO.

    let's not pretend your post , especially the bolded, was not pointed directly at me.

    in any event, i'd be wary of conflating the terms "secessionist" with " neo-confederate" .. they are not one-in-the-same.
    neither term really applies to me... I'm not a seccessionist in terms of believing we should split... I'm simply arguing the right to split should be respected according to a few of our most dearly held american principles... it's a matter of "can" versus "should" to me.
    I think we can.. but i don't think we should.
    ("we" being any substantial political bloc who finds itself in the position of not consenting to be governed by a specific body any longer and decides to exercise thier self-determination in forming and consenting to thier own governence, whatever that might be)

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Four words from the preamble to the Declaration of Independence?



    Maybe he believes that some people a lot smarter than you or he is figured out that not everything can be quantified or verified empirically. For example, how much happiness does the average person consume during his or her lifetime? How much would a hug from President Obama be worth to you, if anything, and what would you use as a scientific standard to measure it? How could you verify it? After all, your definition of happiness and someone else's are probably not the same.
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    did you seriously just ask this question?..hollyyyyyyy ****.... wow.

    the entire document.. all of it.. every single word of it.... pertains to government and government only.

    he's entirely correct... federal law applies to the people, the US Constitution does not.
    Yes I did. And you FAILED TO ANSWER IT. Failed completely and utterly and completely. Here it is again: The judicial branch - the US Supreme Court - has the power to interpret the Constitution and tell us what it means stepping in disputes about the document and its meaning. Can you point to the Supreme Court decision which states that the Constitution does not apply to citizen?

    Now lets see you again fail to answer it.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    no, it's not a falsehood.. it is the very basis for the social contract.

    the government sole duty under the social contract is to serve the people by protecting their life, liberty, and property.



    I have no clue what you think the US is, or what you think what it's philosophical underpinnings are... but it's completely obvious you haven't paid any attention to our history whatsoever..

    natural law is the very foundation of our declaration of Independence, and the US Constitution ( as well as the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen)
    there is no good reason for you to be utterly ignorant of this stuff... none whatsoever.
    Your post makes no sense in any way, shape or form as a reply to the post from me that you reproduced. I was CORRECTING another poster who claimed that the only reason for the establishment of the government was to protect natural rights. The evidence I used was the words given to us by the Founders themselves in the US Constitution where they explain why they wrote it and why they are establishing a government under it. And it includes a whole lot more than just the protection of rights.

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.




    Can you tell me why you and others on the far right feel it necessary to sneak in snide personal comments like the last line of nonsense you included? People of maturity and intelligence realize that one can look at things differently without ignorance being a factor. People who disagree with you are not ignorant - they are educated and informed and simply see things differently that you do. In this case, they know how to read the entire PREAMBLE instead of just cherry picked words that they then twist to fit their own extremist ideology.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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