View Poll Results: Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon

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  • Yes

    69 51.49%
  • No

    61 45.52%
  • Bumbershoot

    4 2.99%
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Thread: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

  1. #761
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends (securing liberty), it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it,"

    Thomas Jefferson


    Thomas Jefferson was one of the American men who fought for their freedom and rights in the U.S. Revolutionary War.

    But not for the freedom and rights of women and Black slaves.

    Think about that a little bit.




    "Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    well, sure... conflicts will arise to be handled.
    I'm not sure how "consent of the governed" can be strengthened , or even said to be respected, with the position of " you are not allowed ot leave, we will kill you if you try, no matter what you reason are".
    I mean, really.. can anyone even pretend to support self-determination when there entire argument consists of denying it when it is sought?

    sure we can.. we do it all the time.

    we haven't become a near welfare/police state by paying attention to history, that's for goddman sure.



    no argument here... well, except for the notion that Statehood is greatly respected.... it's perfectly obvious it's not.

    factions today have very good cause not to come together with other factions to enact social change...there will be no kumbayah monuments in our future.. not with the vast ideological divides within our borders.
    I mean ,really, one of the major factions is actively marching us towards a one government welfare state where the people are mere subjects to the crown.. the other, a police state where it's citizens are mere cattle to be controlled in all aspects..
    no major faction in this country has the desire or ability to " live and let be":.. not... one.

    and this is further proof Statehood is utterly disrespected.
    but yes.. it is a risky ploy... History is replete with risky ploys geared towards benefiting those whom take he helm.
    this nation of ours was born from the very principles folks in here vehemently oppose.... hell, it seems , by the poll, that we are split roughly in half... with one half being loyalists to the crown.


    well, yes.. it is a drastic measure.. and not one I would consent to at this time.
    I don't see how exercising self determination can be seen as damaging self-determination... additionally, I don't feel a change of political blocs should inherently harm any relationship between the many governments, or the people.

    it seems to me that those most opposed to even the idea of secession are getting pissy because they would lose control over the people of a state trying to secede... which ,oddly enough, is a pretty good reason for the people of said state to bail out.
    To each his own, Thrilla, to each is own...

  3. #763
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    In that we agree, but it still indicates a trend.
    What a hypocritical sentence. It reminds me of this:

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Thomas Jefferson was one of the American men who fought for their freedom and rights in the U.S. Revolutionary War.

    But not for the freedom and rights of women and Black slaves.

    Think about that a little bit.

    "Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll
    Gosh, I remember vividly the history that I learned as a kid growing up in the public schools. I experienced a bit of shock when I went to college and took American History. It seems like Washington didn't cut down a cherry tree and when confronted told his father, "I cannot tell a lie". And about 100 more similar things that were total misrepresentations of history.

    The men we call Framers were elitists. They were white land owners. Most of them had a lot vested in America. They weren't about to let King George reap the spoils of their toil. And when you examine the way many made their living - you'll see see them noted to be "planter/lawyer". Or "small farmers/lawyer" Or "scholar". Or "Tradesman/Lawyer". In other words they were all educated business men.

    And most people don't realize that George Washington was the wealthiest president in American history. His net worth at the time (in today's money) was $525 million. John Adams, Thomas Jefferson...both worth over $100 million in today's money. So these folks had something to fight for.

    But you're right, Jefferson and others were also slave owners...and yes, they were known to be abolitionist. And clearly they could have ended slavery at the invent of the Republic form of government, which was supposedly design to protect the minorities, but it didn't. It protected those like the men who created our government. Slaves were still slaves and woman were still women. Neither had a voice.

    While we have the framers to thank for giving America a decent kick-start. It was a vulnerable system then. And it surely is now. By 1825, career politicians became a part of the fairly knew government. And a lot of young elitist had their eyes set on becoming a career politician. By this time there had become strong political faction that were heatedly vying for power and it caused the beginning of strong philosophical divisions among our citizens.

    Before Jefferson died he said, "Even under the best forms of government, those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." How can we disagree with Jefferson's comment? In my lifetime I've certainly seen a rapidly evolving self-will-run-riot government. It knows, without a doubt, that it has us all by the balls. Our elections are dog and pony shows.

    Thanks...

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Except I just put forth an idea...you put forth an idea in a matter-of-fact manner.

    Were I to do the latter, I would want proof of my matter-of-fact statement before uttering/typing it.
    Then here you go: Texas Secede! FAQ

    "But public opinion and ignorance won't stop us "

  6. #766
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Thomas Jefferson was one of the American men who fought for their freedom and rights in the U.S. Revolutionary War.

    But not for the freedom and rights of women and Black slaves.

    Think about that a little bit.




    "Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll
    Done.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    What a hypocritical sentence. It reminds me of this:
    Would you support the right of Texas to secede?-internet-meme-2-condescending-wonka-original-jpg

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    This is so damn typical of the way you argue. I quote the official freakin' US CONSTITUTION which tells us why the wrote it and created the government they did create. What do you do in response - give us something that is just opinion and has no relevance in law at all.

    So damn typical and it summarizes your style perfectly.

    iam sorry you cannot understand the preamble.....but there is the internet and books which can help you.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    you were speculating...unless you are now claiming you are a mindreader.... is that what you are claiming?

    i'm not "asserting to destroy the union"... that's a position you have inaccurately assigned to me in direct contravention to my actual position and words.

    grab your gun and get to secessionist huntin', tough guy ...there's secessionist all over this country, so ..well.. good luck and happy hunting.
    Lol Take a look again: http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1064621701



    Those that think that secession is the way to fix anything, dont understand at all what the Constitution created. Nor do they understand the philosophy behind the US Constitution. But lets be honest the secessionists only see the US Constitution as a roadblock to their fantasies of imposing their will on all Americans. That is the point of neo-Confederates; domination once and for all.

    I did not quote you make any reference to your name or anything close unless you consider yourself a neo-confederate. SO are you a neo-confederate? If you are a neo-confederate then what I said fully applies to you. If not then why the hell did you act as if I were talking about your position?

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    just because we need government to secure rights docent mean there natural I argue that it shows their artificial

    and people have crated rights to get other peoples stuff communism ( they might argue peoples labor entitles them to more then they personally own and hey exploitation can happen ) and we do have the power to deny and abolish rights look at all the stuff we do to one another

    food water and shelter actually seem like decent rights to have

    just because its scary or un pleasant to think of rights as made up and alterable doesn't make them any less so
    will you please provide proof of what you say, ..instead of just telling me this.

    i have asked you several times already where rights are granted by government, and you have refuse to show me.

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